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My Bullbar prevented me from stopping the engine!

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  • m_and_m
    Valued Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 1808
    • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

    My Bullbar prevented me from stopping the engine!

    Yes, it's true.
    But first some background....

    During a trip across the Simpson, just after lone gum, my CEL came on. My car was brand new, and just 5 weeks old.

    I stopped the engine and it wouldn't restart. Not the best spot to have this problem.

    I disconnected the battery to reset computers, and it started. Phew.
    Later that afternoon after pulling up to camp, I turned off the ignition and removed the key.....but the engine was still running. WTF! To stop it I pinched the fuel line to starve it of fuel.

    The car still 'worked' and after a few days of learning the symptoms it turned out that if the headlights were in auto or ON, I could remove the key from the ignition and the engine would still run. To turn off the engine I just needed to turn off the headlights.

    To cut a long diagnosis story short, the fault ended up being a failed diode in the wiring loom inside the ARB bull bar.

    Who would have thought a fault in the lighting circuit like this could prevent the engine from stopping? I reckon the diode was part of the daytime running light in the bar...but not sure.

    Anyone explain it how this could occur?
    2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
    2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
    Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's
  • green troll
    Valued Member
    • Aug 2015
    • 800
    • Adelaide

    #2
    Wow !!!!!!
    You rely on your car being reliable then you hear of something like this.
    Crazy.

    Comment

    • ticky
      Valued Member
      • Jan 2015
      • 1318
      • Adelaide

      #3
      Are you talking about a LED, (Light Emitting Diode) or a regular Diode to control the flow of current.

      Im certainly no expert, but I cant imagine why there would be a regular Diode in the Bar.

      steve
      2009 NT VRX, Rear Battery Pack, 18" Bridgestone D-697, SPVi EGR mod, BushSkinz Intercooler & Sump Plates. BOO's Transmission & Transfer Case Plates. GME 3550, HID HB's and 22"LED Bar, Pioneer Avic F80DAB Audio/Coms/Nav system MM4x4 TC Lockup Mate. & 1/2 tank of Diesel

      Pretty Stock but very Capable

      Wish List: ARB Deluxe Bar & Winch, Snorkel, Diff Breathers, & 1/2 tank of Diesel

      Comment

      • m_and_m
        Valued Member
        • Mar 2010
        • 1808
        • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

        #4
        Originally posted by ticky View Post
        Are you talking about a LED, (Light Emitting Diode) or a regular Diode to control the flow of current.

        Im certainly no expert, but I cant imagine why there would be a regular Diode in the Bar.

        steve

        Regular diode


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
        2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
        Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

        Comment

        • Kingbrown
          Valued Member
          • Apr 2012
          • 1773
          • Port Augusta - SA

          #5
          Does the ARB bar include DRL's ?

          If the DRL's (or circuits for any other lights for that matter) were being supplied by an ignition feed via a diode, then a backfeed from energised lights (ie due to a faulty diode) would keep the associated ignition circuits energised whenever lights are turned on - despite the key being turned off
          2012 PB Challenger LS Manual

          Comment

          • ticky
            Valued Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 1318
            • Adelaide

            #6
            Hey Marshall, That one has me stumped

            as I understand it, a Diode is essentially a one way valve, to allow power to flow in one direction, but not back past the Diode.

            This is why any normal globe will work no matter which side is connected to positive or negative, But an LED can only be connected one way.

            I cant understand why a diode would be used in the light circuit of your bar, but I have very little knowledge about electronics, & even less about the CAN BUS systems used on modern cars.

            Glad you were able to work it out ok & get it sorted once you got off the track.

            That sure is food for thought though.

            Steve
            2009 NT VRX, Rear Battery Pack, 18" Bridgestone D-697, SPVi EGR mod, BushSkinz Intercooler & Sump Plates. BOO's Transmission & Transfer Case Plates. GME 3550, HID HB's and 22"LED Bar, Pioneer Avic F80DAB Audio/Coms/Nav system MM4x4 TC Lockup Mate. & 1/2 tank of Diesel

            Pretty Stock but very Capable

            Wish List: ARB Deluxe Bar & Winch, Snorkel, Diff Breathers, & 1/2 tank of Diesel

            Comment

            • ticky
              Valued Member
              • Jan 2015
              • 1318
              • Adelaide

              #7
              Originally posted by Kingbrown View Post
              Does the ARB bar include DRL's ?

              If the DRL's (or circuits for any other lights for that matter) were being supplied by an ignition feed via a diode, then a backfeed from energised lights (ie due to a faulty diode) would keep the associated ignition circuits energised whenever lights are turned on - despite the key being turned off

              That makes sense. At least that is a good theory. Thats more than I could come up with

              Steve
              2009 NT VRX, Rear Battery Pack, 18" Bridgestone D-697, SPVi EGR mod, BushSkinz Intercooler & Sump Plates. BOO's Transmission & Transfer Case Plates. GME 3550, HID HB's and 22"LED Bar, Pioneer Avic F80DAB Audio/Coms/Nav system MM4x4 TC Lockup Mate. & 1/2 tank of Diesel

              Pretty Stock but very Capable

              Wish List: ARB Deluxe Bar & Winch, Snorkel, Diff Breathers, & 1/2 tank of Diesel

              Comment

              • green troll
                Valued Member
                • Aug 2015
                • 800
                • Adelaide

                #8
                Wouldn't it be isolated by a relay?

                Comment

                • Kingbrown
                  Valued Member
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 1773
                  • Port Augusta - SA

                  #9
                  Whether there's a relay or not, if the diode is connected to the switched side of any lamp in the bullbar then failure of the diode would then put that switched feed onto any circuits to which the other end of the diode is connected (eg ignition circuit).
                  2012 PB Challenger LS Manual

                  Comment

                  • RUGGA
                    Valued Member
                    • Nov 2014
                    • 1373
                    • Adelaide

                    #10
                    What a pain in the A$$.. Thanks for posting the issue and cure.
                    02 NM 3.2, Auto, Exceed, I/C and sump guards, L&B 2" lift, 265/75/16 OPAT2.

                    Comment

                    • nj swb
                      Resident
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 7321
                      • Adelaide

                      #11
                      I'm with Kingbrown. The ARB harness picked up an "ignition on" circuit for the DRLs, relying on the diode for isolation. For reasons unknown, the diode short-circuited, so the lights circuit effectively latched the "ignition on" circuit (which in turn latched the lights circuit on, so it didn't turn off when the key was turned off).

                      I had a similar problem when I hired a car trailer - it took me a horrible distance to realise that applying the brakes with the headlights on would latch the brake signal to the brake controller - the brakes would stay on until the headlights were turned off.

                      Fortunately it was a proportional controller (i.e. one with an accelerometer to determine how hard to apply the brakes) so they were only dragging lightly - probably for hundreds of kilometres. I don't know if the wiring problem is in my Paj, the hired trailer, or the controller supplied with the trailer.
                      NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                      Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                      Scorpro Explorer Box

                      Comment

                      • MSF
                        Valued Member
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 1674
                        • Sydney, Northern Beaches

                        #12
                        This needs to be a feature on all cars.. - connected to a sensor in the wipers and dashboard sensor to measure light refraction...

                        But in reverse.. If you try to drive with your fog lights on when it is not raining or foggy conditions, your car stops....

                        Comment

                        • nj swb
                          Resident
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 7321
                          • Adelaide

                          #13
                          Originally posted by MSF View Post
                          This needs to be a feature on all cars.. - connected to a sensor in the wipers and dashboard sensor to measure light refraction...

                          But in reverse.. If you try to drive with your fog lights on when it is not raining or foggy conditions, your car stops....

                          You're a thinker!
                          NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                          Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                          Scorpro Explorer Box

                          Comment

                          • Seighcret
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2015
                            • 33
                            • Wanaaring

                            #14
                            Great information - it's stuff like this that can save a lot of problems for others stuck in the middle of nowhere. Thanks for sharing!


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                            Comment

                            • fester
                              Valued Member
                              • Feb 2013
                              • 1740
                              • Gympie Qld

                              #15
                              Whilst I understand the diode issue, what I don't understand is why the lights in the ARB bar need to wired somewhat differently to what was wired in the standard bumper. Surely the lights in the bar are just a mimic of what was in the bumper and just reused the original wiring. If anything maybe extended a bit. If the base vehicle has DRL's and DRL's are incorporated into the ARB bar then why is there a wiring alteration. Or is it because they are using parkers also as DRL's or something. I thought they used standalone DRL's these days.

                              Comment

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