2WD versus 4WD

[aussieintas]

The only gain in traction will be seen in acceleration. you're turning and stopping is not improved by running 4wd at all. unless you are rally spec driving and whipping it into a corner hard enough that your angle is 90 degrees to the corner and you are using the power of spinning tyres to help pull you through the turn... otherwise this is moot.

So are you saying on a gravel road or wet oily road going round a corner there is no difference in traction being in 4H or 2H, unless accelerating?

[Jasonmc73]

[QUOTE=Ozzz;639756]

I highly appreciate super select while looking for a 4wd. I guess 2H is a great option for soccer mums when their Paj never leave bitumen. Due to Paj monocoque design, the idea to minimise the vibration and improve fuel is excellent to help sales or meet the emission requirement? When I tested drive the Paj, sales person put it on 2H, and I switched it to 4H

I appreciate it as well, but i guess you & i will use it differently

[Patagonia]

The only gain in traction will be seen in acceleration. you're turning and stopping is not improved by running 4wd at all. unless you are rally spec driving and whipping it into a corner hard enough that your angle is 90 degrees to the corner and you are using the power of spinning tyres to help pull you through the turn... otherwise this is moot.

I dont agree, driving in 4wd will change de dynamic weight afecting its response while turning for example, also asc will have two more wheels to play actively (not only braking them but transfering torque to them) and remember while normal driving torque split front/back varies according to driving condicions.

In my experience in dirt roads 4wd driving behavour is easely noticable from 2wd...maybe a little more boring but noticable hehehe.

[cruisn06]

So are you saying on a gravel road or wet oily road going round a corner there is no difference in traction being in 4H or 2H, unless accelerating?

Exactly. Unless you’re tossing it into corners no difference. Sorry but the laws of physics still apply. I grew up in Canada, in the winter you see way more 4wds upside down in the ditch cause they accelerate on ice/ gravel like nothing is wrong then hit a corner and oops.. in the ditch. Like I said though, if you’re tossing it around hard ya 4wd will help as your pulling the car through the corner, but acs has to be off. So besides accelerating there is zero Benefits to be in 4wd.

[aussieintas]

I will not go into my experience in driving in differing countries and my current role in my employment but safe to say I know a little bit about driving. Saying you saw more 4wd in ditches is possibly more to do with the driver ability than the vehicle being driven....who knows. I see too many times drivers who think the vehicle will save them or drive them out of a situation where they have messed up.

When in 4H the system apportions power 33/67% front to rear, thus when driving around in 4H I believe there is a safety benefit. It apportions this power regardless of accelerating or cornering or braking so with all 4 wheels driving the vehicle I believe there is a benefit, especially when things are slippery for what ever reasons.

You are contradictory in your statement and slightly confusing as you say there is......"only a gain when accelerating......otherwise this is moot". Thus my point isn't moot as there is a gain

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree my friend and as I said in my post, everyone has a differing take for many reasons on this matter.

[old Jack]

I too have made the same observations as Crusin06, both in the snowfields and the outback, but my conclusions are slightly different.
1. Ththere a more damaged 4wd/AWD vehicles because generally there are more of these vehicle operating in these areas on roads, than convential 2wd cars.
2. The extra traction and control provided by an AWD and 4wd means that many people are now travelling faster than they should. This is a major problem when you lose traction and the vehicle is no longer under your control. The higher the speed the greater the momentum and the more inertia and less time so things go pear shape very quickly. Most drivers do not have the training or skill to handle a vehicle once it has lost traction, this is why all the automatic safety systems on new vehicles are so good, problem is they do give many a false sense of security and an inflated sense of ability.

If you veiw traction as the cars grip on the ground and this is what you need to accelerate, maintain a set speed, brake and steer. Once traction is lost then you lose the ability to have 100% control of the vehicle and physics take over.

We have brakes on all 4 wheels so having drive on all 4 wheels is an added advantage for maintaining traction whilst accelerating, braking, steering and the maintaining a desired speed.

OJ.

[cruisn06]

I will not go into my experience in driving in differing countries and my current role in my employment but safe to say I know a little bit about driving. Saying you saw more 4wd in ditches is possibly more to do with the driver ability than the vehicle being driven....who knows. I see too many times drivers who think the vehicle will save them or drive them out of a situation where they have messed up.

When in 4H the system apportions power 33/67% front to rear, thus when driving around in 4H I believe there is a safety benefit. It apportions this power regardless of accelerating or cornering or braking so with all 4 wheels driving the vehicle I believe there is a benefit, especially when things are slippery for what ever reasons.

You are contradictory in your statement and slightly confusing as you say there is......"only a gain when accelerating......otherwise this is moot". Thus my point isn't moot as there is a gain

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree my friend and as I said in my post, everyone has a differing take for many reasons on this matter.

But you mention it so I will too... I also work all over the world and also spend 99% of my time in 2wd as 4wd just isn't needed, from the worst gravel in Congo to dirt roads in French quiana.., and seeing more 4wds in the ditch in a certain country does have an obvious outcome, we dont know the skill level, but if you are in 4wd and take off quickly you will go "this road is in great shape" nek minnut... off the road in a corner.

PHYSICS PEOPLE. you have a finite amount of traction/friction available. if you accelerate you lose friction available for steering and vice versa.

Now, if you apply the brakes in a corner when you are losing it, obviously the weight transfer will help regain turning ability, not so much the 4wd system.

4wd = acceleration only on roads. not handling ability.

The issue is most on here keep saying you can turn and handle better.. you cant. maybe during a club meet there should be a test or something. do a turn on gravel and see which vehicle scrubs out quicker when turning.

[willneill]

4wd is being thrown around a lot here. I wonder how many of you actually mean AWD or 4H? I use 4H as soon as I leave a sealed road or am driving in the wet. My question would be (as a newbie to 4wd's) when should I be locking the centre dif (4Hlc) and actually be in 4wd? I have always reserved 4wd for when a track gets a bit tougher, but have heard 4wd should be used even on an average dirt road at 60-80km/h.

[vrx26]

4wd is being thrown around a lot here. I wonder how many of you actually mean AWD or 4H? I use 4H as soon as I leave a sealed road or am driving in the wet. My question would be (as a newbie to 4wd's) when should I be locking the centre dif (4Hlc) and actually be in 4wd? I have always reserved 4wd for when a track gets a bit tougher, but have heard 4wd should be used even on an average dirt road at 60-80km/h.

Here is a good explanation of the super select system

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/mitsubishis-super-select-4x4-system-explained/

I usually drive in 4H most of the time but uses 2WD mode as well at times just to save a bit of fuel on long drives and to make sure system is being activated once in a while. In saying that I have never experienced loosing traction even on scenarios when you turn in on loose surfaces at allowable speed. Not sure if driving a Petrol Pajero makes a difference maybe because of lesser kerb weight and mass than diesel Pajero and because of substantially less torque rating 329 versus 441 Nm.

[Ian H]

4wd is being thrown around a lot here. I wonder how many of you actually mean AWD or 4H? I use 4H as soon as I leave a sealed road or am driving in the wet. My question would be (as a newbie to 4wd's) when should I be locking the centre dif (4Hlc) and actually be in 4wd? I have always reserved 4wd for when a track gets a bit tougher, but have heard 4wd should be used even on an average dirt road at 60-80km/h.

4H can be used on any surface, including bitumen. 4WD (4HLC) can only be used when the surface will allow some slip, like on a dirt or gravel road.

[Paj11]

Interesting argument, I always drive in 4H as I feel it would give me better handling, wasn’t having AWD one of the reasons why the Nissan GTR Godzilla was so dominant in the early 90s, but then if you look at other Championships such as F1, NASCAR, Supercars, Indy’ Le Mans don’t employ AWD, but I guess it’s no advantage if every team has it and perhaps the extra parts,weight,design, cost vs advantage doesn’t stack up anyway, perhaps it’s just the rules. Even in Rally Driving it was really only Subaru and Lancer that had AWD, everyone other team I am sure was either Front Wheel and Rear Wheel Drive. Food for thought.

[pharb]

Interesting argument, I always drive in 4H as I feel it would give me better handling, wasn’t having AWD one of the reasons why the Nissan GTR Godzilla was so dominant in the early 90s, but then if you look at other Championships such as F1, NASCAR, Supercars, Indy’ Le Mans don’t employ AWD, but I guess it’s no advantage if every team has it and perhaps the extra parts,weight,design, cost vs advantage doesn’t stack up anyway, perhaps it’s just the rules. Even in Rally Driving it was really only Subaru and Lancer that had AWD, everyone other team I am sure was either Front Wheel and Rear Wheel Drive. Food for thought.

The Nissan Skyline GTR was basically banned when the Australian Touring Car Championship replaced their Group A rules with their own rules with the introduction of their Australia only V8 Supercar series, effectively banning the Skyline with mandatory V8 engines and rear wheel drive.

Audi was the first manufacturer to jump on all wheel drive rally cars, and won the Group B World Rally Championship that year in 1982.
Then Lancia was the last manufacturer to win with 2wd the next year in 1983 with the rear wheel drive 037.
Then Audi again in 1984, then Peugeot in '85 and '86. That was the last year of Group B.

Introduction of Group A saw the all wheel drive Lancia Delta win 6 years in a row, then Toyota Celica GT4 in '93 and '94, then Subaru for 3 years, then Lancer Evo V in '88.

Group A rules were replaced with "World Rally Car" in 1989. All World Rally Cars are all wheel drive.

Every championship winning car since the Lancia 037 has been all wheel drive.

Lancia is to World Rally Championship what Pajero is to Paris to Dakar

Can you tell I'm a Lancia fan, as well as Pajero

[Paj11]

I think it’s settled, put it into 4H😝

[cruisn06]

I think it’s settled, put it into 4H😝

That doesn’t settle anything, they are throwing the car sideways and pulling through a corner. Not driving the speed limit and to conditions.

[Paj11]

All things being equal you have to say 4WD/AWD will
give you better handling across all aspects of driving and differing conditions.