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Generation 3 Pajero NM - NP Models 2000 - 2006

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  #1  
Old 23-02-20
SONICMASD SONICMASD is offline
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Default No Man's Land Suspension - Too heavy for HD, Too light for EHD

Hi All,

I've found myself in no man's land when it comes to my front suspension.

I have 134kgs of added weight on the front and this is too much for every manufacturer's HD springs that I've found. Most HD springs seem to say 100kgs is the max. I know someone with almost the same set up as me and their Lovell's HD springs sagged down from the 40-50mm of normal lift to 20-30mm which is not ideal.

Knowing this, I took a chance on the EHD Diesel Springs from Lovells (paired with Bilstein 4600 shocks) and as you might expect, they are way too firm and super harsh. Even with all of this weight, the front is still 60mm higher, which is too high and is putting downward force on the rear springs.

My Pajero's Specs:

2005 NP 3.8L V6 Petrol

Front Additional Weight: 295lbs (134kg)

ARB Bumper: 110
Winch: 55
Skid Plates: 45
Bigger Battery & Fuse Box: 30
1/2 of Middle of Vehicle Additional Weight (Rock Sliders, Skid plates, Water Jug): 75
Less Factory Equipment Removed: Original Bumper: -20


I spoke with Lovells about this and their suggestion was to replace the EHD with HD and put a spacer on top of the strut or move the spring perch up on the Bilstein's to achieve the desired lift but I don't want to increase the preload on the coils for fear of yet again, having a harsh ride or having alignment problems.

Does anyone have any ideas? Do any of you have Lovell's HD Springs in the Front with similar or greater weight on them than I do and have they sagged down as well?

Picture Here: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7oLeumHfZy/
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  #2  
Old 23-02-20
twisted32 twisted32 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONICMASD View Post
Hi All,

I've found myself in no man's land when it comes to my front suspension.

I have 134kgs of added weight on the front and this is too much for every manufacturer's HD springs that I've found. Most HD springs seem to say 100kgs is the max. I know someone with almost the same set up as me and their Lovell's HD springs sagged down from the 40-50mm of normal lift to 20-30mm which is not ideal.

Knowing this, I took a chance on the EHD Diesel Springs from Lovells (paired with Bilstein 4600 shocks) and as you might expect, they are way too firm and super harsh. Even with all of this weight, the front is still 60mm higher, which is too high and is putting downward force on the rear springs.

My Pajero's Specs:

2005 NP 3.8L V6 Petrol

Front Additional Weight: 295lbs (134kg)

ARB Bumper: 110
Winch: 55
Skid Plates: 45
Bigger Battery & Fuse Box: 30
1/2 of Middle of Vehicle Additional Weight (Rock Sliders, Skid plates, Water Jug): 75
Less Factory Equipment Removed: Original Bumper: -20


I spoke with Lovells about this and their suggestion was to replace the EHD with HD and put a spacer on top of the strut or move the spring perch up on the Bilstein's to achieve the desired lift but I don't want to increase the preload on the coils for fear of yet again, having a harsh ride or having alignment problems.

Does anyone have any ideas? Do any of you have Lovell's HD Springs in the Front with similar or greater weight on them than I do and have they sagged down as well?

Picture Here: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7oLeumHfZy/
Adjust the lower spring perch with the HDs.

Pre load will not negatively effect the ride on a linear rate spring unless the coils bind on full compression. 10mm pre load won't be an issue.

DON'T use strut top spacers if you value your CVs.
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  #3  
Old 23-02-20
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nj swb nj swb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONICMASD View Post
I spoke with Lovells about this and their suggestion was to replace the EHD with HD and put a spacer on top of the strut or move the spring perch up on the Bilstein's to achieve the desired lift but I don't want to increase the preload on the coils for fear of yet again, having a harsh ride or having alignment problems.
These solutions from Lovells don't affect the load on the spring.

The load on the spring comes from the weight on the wheel. The weight is what causes the spring to compress. If the spring is compressing further, it has more weight (load). If the spring hasn't compressed as far, it has less weight (load).

Putting a spacer on top of the strut increases the load on the spring by the weight of the spacer. In the grand scheme of things, negligible. The compression of the spring remains the same, because the load remains the same.

Adjusting the spring perch doesn't increase the load on the spring, or the compression of the spring. It is increasing the amount of strut body below the bottom end of the spring - it doesn't affect the compressed length of the spring.

I went through the same issues that you're facing. Buy off the shelf springs rated for the load I'm carrying (steel bull bar, winch, second battery against the firewall) and I wasn't getting the lift I wanted. So I bought Dobinson monotubes, because they have an adjustable spring seat that allows the "settled" ride height to be set where I want it.

The alternative is to dive down the rabbit hole of custom made springs, specifying the loaded spring rate you want and the free length needed to achieve the loaded ride height you want. There is generally a small amount of trial and error required to "dial in" the final solution, and it's a little trickier with independent suspension adding a "multiplier" - a small change in compressed height of the spring has a larger change in ride height, about 2 to 1 for Pajero front ends.
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Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

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  #4  
Old 23-02-20
Nab Nab is offline
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I'm pretty sure EHD are only for diesels with steel bar and winch. I had them on my diesel NP with steel bar and steel bash plates (no winch) and they were pretty firm, not too uncomfortable though.
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  #5  
Old 24-02-20
SONICMASD SONICMASD is offline
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Wow, this is very interesting, thank you guys.

Ok, so strut spacers are definitely a no go.

I guess I only have 3 more things to say then:

1. So if raising the spring perch does not increase preload, are there any negative effects to it at all? Does’t it make the ride firmer, all things being equal?

2. I reached out to Kings for a solution as well and they recommend their HD Diesel Springs for the front which are rated for the heavier Diesel engine +100kgs and they are progressive. What do you guys think of this option vs going with Lovells HD on the higher Bilstein perch?

3. Does anyone know the weight difference between the 3.2 Diesel and 3.8 V6 engine weights?
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Old 24-02-20
dc80 dc80 is offline
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SONICMASD do you think the EHD up front accounts for the choppy ride in your comparo with the King Springs/Kings Coilovers in Jamie's Montero?
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Old 24-02-20
SONICMASD SONICMASD is offline
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Definitely. The front end is bouncing around like crazy because the springs are too heavy. With a properly rated front spring set I think it would have been better but still no where near as smooth as Jamieís truck. Once I get the springs swapped out Iíll refilm the comparison video.

Hereís the link for those not familiar:

Full Video: https://youtu.be/O6jRfXXe0yU

Short side by side: https://youtu.be/z8idPIjeu3Y
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Old 24-02-20
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My comments below.

OJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SONICMASD View Post
Wow, this is very interesting, thank you guys.

Ok, so strut spacers are definitely a no go.
Fitting strut spacers between the top of the strut mount and the body will raise your ride height but not effect the spring rate. You need to be very careful doing this as you can cause the strut or coil to fully compress and bind before the suspension compression stop contacts and compresses, if this happens then you can expect to bend struts and break top and bottom strut mounts.
Fitting strut spacers between the top of the coil and the top strut cap/mount, will increase the ride height because you have increased the coil pre-load, but they do not change the coil spring rate. You need to also be very careful doing this as you can cause the strut or coil to fully compress and bind before the suspension compression stop contacts and compresses, if this happens then you can expect to bend struts and break top and bottom strut mounts.. Caution


I guess I only have 3 more things to say then:

1. So if raising the spring perch does not increase preload, are there any negative effects to it at all? Doesít it make the ride firmer, all things being equal?
Raising the spring perch has the same effect as fitting a spacer between the top of the coil and the top cap/mount.

2. I reached out to Kings for a solution as well and they recommend their HD Diesel Springs for the front which are rated for the heavier Diesel engine +100kgs and they are progressive. What do you guys think of this option vs going with Lovells HD on the higher Bilstein perch?
What part number coils have Kings recomended? I am not aware that they do a progressive rate front coil for the Gen3/4 Pajero.

3. Does anyone know the weight difference between the 3.2 Diesel and 3.8 V6 engine weights?
If you can weigh your front axle load on a weigh bridge and also measure from the centre of the wheel hub to under the wheel arch in a vertical line on all 4 wheels. Post, PM or email me results and I can look at what spring options are available.
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Old 24-02-20
SONICMASD SONICMASD is offline
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Thanks Jack,

I just heard from King again and as you suspected the front springs they recommended are not Progressive as I originally thought: KCFR-34HHD

Iíll get the wheel lift measurements for you soon. As for weighing the front axle, just pull the truck halfway onto the scale and thatís it?
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Old 24-02-20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONICMASD View Post
Thanks Jack,

I just heard from King again and as you suspected the front springs they recommended are not Progressive as I originally thought: KCFR-34HHD

Iíll get the wheel lift measurements for you soon. As for weighing the front axle, just pull the truck halfway onto the scale and thatís it?
Correct, drive on to the weigh bridge as far as possible before the rear wheel go on the weigh bridge.

OJ.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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