RIP Holden

[bennyb29]

Holden will be axed in Australia at the end of 2020 – just three years after the end of local manufacturing and the lowest monthly sales since it was established in 1948 – as US car giant General Motors gets out of right-hand-drive markets globally.

Although Holden had been posting record low sales – which led to the end of the Commodore and Astra models late last year – the announcement has still come as a shock to industry veterans now the brand has lost its final lifeline.

General Motors will also close its Melbourne design studio and test track at Lang Lang on the south-east outskirts of Melbourne. Approximately 600 of the 800 jobs will be lost, with all being awarded redundancies. The remaining workforce of 200 people will take care of Holden's ongoing service and warranty commitments for up to 10 years.

Link

[Mundy55]

I realise there will be a lot of committed Holden lovers who will be feeling a deep sense of loss. There are also a large number of people who'll lose their jobs. For both of those, I am saddened.

However, personally, my experience with Holden has left me saying, good riddence, you got what you deserve.They had an arrogance in which they expected our custom because "we are Australian". But woe betide if you had a problem where the service people would look at and treat you like you were a complete imbecile or conman and when proven you were correct, no apology; and they just lied to your face.

The final insult to Australia was when the Australian Gov gave them $250million on the back of a promise to be here 10 years, then barely 12 months later say they are closing manufacturing and repatriate $150million back to Detroit.

Sure economic conditions were rough at times but their final demise was in the most part, lack of vision and investment, poor management decisions and treating the customers with contempt.

[nj swb]

I'm a little disappointed that it has come to this, but it's not something I'll lose too much sleep over.

Personally, I blame GM's head office in the US - they haven't really been interested in Holden for decades, they seemed to think Holden was a competitor for their other brands. In my opinion, the Australian made Commodore was truly a world class vehicle, but they didn't want it competing against other GM offerings.

Of course, manufacturing costs here in Australia didn't help, and we're a long way from the rest of the world - so shipping costs wouldn't have helped. But we import cars from all over the world, which come by ship - what do those ships carry on their return journey?

If GM head office had wanted the Commodore to succeed on a global scale I believe economies of scale would've helped bring down manufacturing costs and we could still have a viable automotive manufacturing sector here in Australia. But GM chose to let Holden wither and die.

[old Jack]

I grew up less than 10km away from the GMH plant is Elizabeth SA, my father had FB, EJ, HR, HK, HQ and WM Holdens and my first car was an EH. I thought the EH was great until I got a GB Galant the difference was chalk and cheese and since then I have never had another Holden except for a 89 Jackaroo which was a rebadged Isuzu, and a great car.

When Mitsubishi in Adelaide closed down in 2008, there were incentives to employ ex Mitsi workers so I interviewed a few, at the time the Award rate was about $45K for a forklift driver stores person, we were paying $50K but I had several Mitsi workers that would not take the job because it was a $25K pay cut!

Same happened when Holden production closed down, all employees had been on the gravy train for so long and their wages were 50% to 100% higher than that they could get in the normal market place. The people I feel sorry for are the local businesses that made and supplied parts to Holdens, the people making the seats, mirrors etc where being paid half of what the people on the assembly line where being paid to bolt the seats and mirrors in place, but these people got a fraction of redundancy or support that GMH employees got.

Car manufacturing failed in Australia because they could not compete with higher quality and cheaper imported cars that suited the Australian market better. Reality the only things that kept Holden going for so long was government hand outs, fleet buyers and motor sport.

Greed and arrogance of the company, management, workers and unions eventually caught up.

OJ.

[nj swb]

Greed and arrogance of the company, management, workers and unions eventually caught up.

OJ.

Yes, I hope the unions are really pleased with the deals they made for high wages. High paying jobs are awesome, until there's no more job.

The unions screwed management for every last cent they could get, and management caved because the government was subsidising it all anyway.

Once the government got sick of subsidising the high wages, the end of manufacturing was inevitable.

Sustainable? What's that mean?

[dhula]

Sustainable? What's that mean?

To the lucky few that have screwed the pooch and survived it most likely meant - Profit in my back pocket while the gravy train lasts

[sharkcaver]

I'm a Holden man myself and the news is sad. But not surprising in the slightest. To survive in this highly competitive market, you have to have a product that sells. And their product just didn't. Times have changed, peoples needs have too and the dunny door was past its lifespan. With the close of local manufacturing, and a product that didn't sell, the writing was on the wall.

As to forkies knocking back a job offer because of a 30% pay cut, in a small labour market like Adelaide, more fool them.

I recall the announcement of the death knell for Holden's local manufacturing. Lots of people whinging about Govt subsidies to the 2 manufacturers and emotive clap trap about non skilled production line workers earning 130K. The same people who now whine about manufacturing in this country is now dead.

I did some searching and found the production workers EBA. It was nothing like the whingers had stated as fact. I cant recall the exact figures now, but the base rate of pay wasn't excessive at all. If these people were earning 130K, then they were working lots of penalty shifts and excessive overtime. It didn't come for free. That's a management issue, not a junket for workers.

As a side note, I wonder what the true cost of the closure of the 2 manufacturers (and ancillary businesses that supplied them) has been to the Aussie tax payer? And now another 600 jobs to go.

Back to the news at hand, It is a sad day, but if you are not selling product nor making changes to turn that around, well then, more fool them. At least we can take some comfort in that GM decided the entire right hand drive market is not in their business models interest. It wasn't just about Holden's poor performance.

[sharkcaver]

Yes, I hope the unions are really pleased with the deals they made for high wages. High paying jobs are awesome, until there's no more job.

The unions screwed management for every last cent they could get, and management caved because the government was subsidising it all anyway.

Once the government got sick of subsidising the high wages, the end of manufacturing was inevitable.

Sustainable? What's that mean?

posted while I posted above.....

Really now....the same waffle I mention above. So what part of Holden's business have the unions screwed to the wall since manufacturing ceased?

[nj swb]

posted while I posted above.....

Really now....the same waffle I mention above.

I can't explain what you saw in the EBA, or where $130k comes from - I was hearing stories of workers earning $75k for jobs worth $50k anywhere else. I've listened to Holden workers (while they still had jobs) laughing about how much they were paid compared to the poor others doing the same job outside Holden's sheltered workshop. OJ posted his experience of ex auto workers turning up their noses because real world jobs paid so much less than their subsidised positions. Did they really believe they were worth so much more?

I stand by my assertion that the unions ultimately screwed over their own workers. Short term gains that weren't sustainable in the long term. Perhaps they expected the government would always subsidise the jobs?

But I do agree it wasn't only the unions at fault - management both here in Australia and back in the US also contributed to the demise of the brand. Ultimately, I don't believe GM in the US wanted Holden to survive, as the Australian manufactured cars were competing against product from other GM factories.

So what part of Holden's business have the unions screwed to the wall since manufacturing ceased?

I was posting specifically about the end of manufacturing. This most recent announcement is because GM globally couldn't produce cars that had sufficient appeal to Australians - once they no longer had the "Australian Made" factor to pull in customers, Holden became just another retailer of mediocre imported whitegoods on wheels. At least Ford sell some "hero" cars to maintain some interest in the brand, like the Mustang, and the Raptor. Ford have the best selling 4x4 in the country. What did Holden have? Supercars?

For Holden, the train ran off the rails years ago, but the crash has been quietly happening in slow motion. The dust has finally settled, and the wreckage can no longer be ignored. This is disappointing, but not surprising.

[sharkcaver]

I can't explain what you saw in the EBA, or where $130k comes from - I was hearing stories of workers earning $75k for jobs worth $50k anywhere else.

And why was that? predominantly shift work and overtime. If the same opportunity was available to the 50K worker, it would be a non argument.

For the record, attached is the last GMH EBA. Have a read, show where the unions screwed the manufacturing side of the business to the wall:

EDIT: PDF wont upload.

Here is a link to it:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae411040.pdf

I was posting specifically about the end of manufacturing.

Which has not a lot to do with unions screwing management forcing the full closure of the business.

One wont happen without the other, but the unions screwed no one since manufacturing stopped and we are talking about the full closure of the business here. Manufacturing ceased 3 years ago.

[Dicko1]

And why was that? predominantly shift work and overtime. If the same opportunity was available to the 50K worker, it would be a non argument.

For the record, attached is the last GMH EBA. Have a read, show where the unions screwed the manufacturing side of the business to the wall:

EDIT: PDF wont upload.

Here is a link to it:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae411040.pdf

Which has not a lot to do with unions screwing management forcing the full closure of the business.

One wont happen without the other, but the unions screwed no one since manufacturing stopped and we are talking about the full closure of the business here. Manufacturing ceased 3 years ago.

Holden workers wages are nothing compared to this racket...


Labourers on the West Gate Tunnel are earning close to $200,000 a year as the building industry warns that wages on state government infrastructure projects are out of control.
Figures from the Master Builders Association of Victoria show an entry level labourer working a basic 36-hour week would be earning $110,000 per year but for the industry standard 56-hour week, they would earn $195,000.

“An entry-level labourer, working no overtime, on a six-figure salary is probably getting paid more than a teacher or other workers,” Master Builders Association chief executive Rebecca Casson told The Age.
“It’s these incredibly high site allowances that really push wages up; these are payable regardless of any of the environmental factors on site.”

The Master Builders say wages and allowances, conforming with an industry-wide “pattern” deal won by the building union the CFMEU, flow on to other projects in the state government’s massive infrastructure build and it is Victorian taxpayers who will ultimately foot the bill.


We can scream and yell all we want about Holden getting hundreds of millions of taxpayers money. Politicians willingly handed it out. It will happen again (and is happening now )..No accountability, backroom deals and greed . Lets face it...politicians have no problem wasting taxpayers money (sports rort comes to mind) , they get paid excessively well to waste our money . Any wonder nearly 80% of Australians dont trust politicians.
















If there's one thing Melbourne is doing a lot of right now, it's massive road and rail projects.






“An entry-level labourer, working no overtime, on a six-figure salary is probably getting paid more than a teacher or other workers,” Master Builders Association chief executive Rebecca Casson told The Age.
“It’s these incredibly high site allowances that really push wages up; these are payable regardless of any of the environmental factors on site.”

The Master Builders say wages and allowances, conforming with an industry-wide “pattern” deal won by the building union the CFMEU, flow on to other projects in the state government’s massive infrastructure build and it is Victorian taxpayers who will ultimately foot the bill.

[disco stu]

Problem with analysing why this happened is bound to bring up the unions actions there (I heard way back that any new employee at Holden was pressured heavily to join the union, and if they didn't then life was made hard). Then as soon as you mention unions you get the polarised view points related to political positions

I've made the mistake of criticising union actions over certain things in earshot of labor supporters and the it all starts (I think that one was about the rate of casual employment these days). Without unions you wouldn't have an 8hr workday. Without unions you would have 8yo kids in the mines etc etc. They have done a lot of good in the past and the present, but they also over play their hand at times without a long term view. It appears that it certainly didn't help the situation here.

Shame to see Holden has fully gone, but I thought this was fairly inevitable once they stopped manufacturing here.

Could they go back to making saddles?

[disco stu]

Holden workers wages are nothing compared to this racket...


Labourers on the West Gate Tunnel are earning close to $200,000 a year as the building industry warns that wages on state government infrastructure projects are out of control.
Figures from the Master Builders Association of Victoria show an entry level labourer working a basic 36-hour week would be earning $110,000 per year but for the industry standard 56-hour week, they would earn $195,000.

“An entry-level labourer, working no overtime, on a six-figure salary is probably getting paid more than a teacher or other workers,” Master Builders Association chief executive Rebecca Casson told The Age.
“It’s these incredibly high site allowances that really push wages up; these are payable regardless of any of the environmental factors on site.”

The Master Builders say wages and allowances, conforming with an industry-wide “pattern” deal won by the building union the CFMEU, flow on to other projects in the state government’s massive infrastructure build and it is Victorian taxpayers who will ultimately foot the bill.


We can scream and yell all we want about Holden getting hundreds of millions of taxpayers money. Politicians willingly handed it out. It will happen again (and is happening now )..No accountability, backroom deals and greed . Lets face it...politicians have no problem wasting taxpayers money (sports rort ...........
l.

I'm a teacher, mostly casual work due to health etc, and compared to what I was earning in all the jobs I could get before I feel like I'm raking it in (a university qualified tackle shop worker or grounds maintenance at a camp site). I'm not getting anything like what those guys are earning though. I've no idea of my yearly pay, but working casually it was less than half their base rate, but if it was evened out I think it would be a bit over half

[nj swb]

And why was that? predominantly shift work and overtime. If the same opportunity was available to the 50K worker, it would be a non argument.

For the record, attached is the last GMH EBA. Have a read, show where the unions screwed the manufacturing side of the business to the wall:

EDIT: PDF wont upload.

Here is a link to it:

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/doc...a/ae411040.pdf

That EBA was agreed after Holden had announced it was closing manufacturing, and even makes reference to the wind down and subsequent closure of manufacturing and engineering. Hard to blame that EBA for something that occurred before it was agreed.

But let's look at it. The first table I found is Non-trades rates. Entry level, in 2014, was $919.50 per week for essentially unskilled & untrained labour, rising to $1004.80 per week in 2017 - before any shift work or overtime. Minimum wage in 2019 is $740.80 per week, so that's a handy increase above minimum wage for an unskilled entry level position.

But those rates are for workers already employed. Anybody starting in such a position after commencement of the agreement would be paid less. There is a separate table for new starters, paying $892.70 in 2014, up to $947.10 in 2017. Why was an EBA accepted that would result in unequal pay for equal work? Perhaps the previous EBA, in place leading up to the close of manufacturing, was paying too much?

I had a look at some of the rates for engineers and technical officers, and they are undoubtedly better than typical rates paid in general industry in SA. The EBA was paying above average rates for industry in SA, I'd estimate in the region of $10k to $20k per year, per person, in SA.

Before any shift work or overtime.

I found a report that Holden had 2900 employees when the decision was made to close manufacturing. If the average overpayment across the 2900 employees was $10k that's a $29M per year cost going into the cars they were trying to sell. Quick check, they were making in the order of 60,000 cars per year towards the end, so that's in the order of $500 per car that came off the line. Before any shift work or overtime.

How was Australian car manufacturing supposed to compete with Asia's power-house manufacturing nations when they're being hobbled to that extent?

[Dicko1]

You want to look at some of the pay rates for different occupations in the mining industry NJ SWB....ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.