Where does one attach a snatchem strap to the front of a Pajero

[mrbitchi]

My point is a bridle will only eliminate 1 single point. The inference is that the tow loops are the weakest point. What facts do you have to say that? MM engineers were unable to cause ANY damage to the loops, or any other part of the vehicle, using a single loop to recover from. This would lead me to think the weakest point in the recovery would be the snatch strap itself, especially one that's been used a few times. Therefore if you want to eliminate the weakest point you'd need to eliminate or duplicate the strap itself.. Not practical.

In every recovery you will have a SPOF somewhere in the line. It's just not practical to eliminate them all. "A suitable piece of rope attached to a winch cable" is a a safety thing done to prevent cable whip in case of breakage. It does nothing to remove a SPOF.

That said, it IS a good idea to use anything that makes a recovery safer.

[blue penguin]

geez, how complex are your setups if you can't eliminate all SPOF's? :-S

There aren't that many points to start with, and all you need to do is ensure that each point of failure has at least one level of redundancy/backup - doesn't need to be able to do the job on its own, only to be sufficient to mitigate the impact/consequences of a failure in the main system.

[stufishing]

How about filling us in on your safer method for the exact situation outlined then Blue Penguin.

Recovery from towee towbar to NP Pajero front mounted recovery point/points.

[mrbitchi]

geez, how complex are your setups if you can't eliminate all SPOF's? :-S

There aren't that many points to start with, and all you need to do is ensure that each point of failure has at least one level of redundancy/backup - doesn't need to be able to do the job on its own, only to be sufficient to mitigate the impact/consequences of a failure in the main system.

Just off the top of my head.... If you want to be pedantic..
1. Tow loop
2. Snatch strap (actually 3 points.. eye at each end and strap itself)
3. Pin in hitch reciever
4. Towbar itself..

I've probably missed some as well..

Using a bridle actually introduces another SPOF (the bridle itself) but does make the overall operation a tad safer.

[blue penguin]

How about filling us in on your safer method for the exact situation outlined then Blue Penguin.

Recovery from towee towbar to NP Pajero front mounted recovery point/points.

How about I solve world peace while I'm at it? There's no one right way of doing it, which you'd know already if you're serious and not just trying to stir trouble. You need to make the call yourself and go from there. It may well be that a SPOF in a given situation is not actually going to be a serious issue and is in that instance acceptable to leave as-is, but surely it's just the smart commonsense thing to do to at least assess it properly to start with, and to eliminate any SPOF's where reasonable and practical to do so? That's all I've been saying, and I can't see why any reasonable person would have a problem with it, so why do you?

[stufishing]

I don't have a problem with it. I was hoping you could provide some enlightenment on how you would go about eliminating some of the points of failure. Unfortunately, it seems you either can't or don't want to.

Fine by me, I just don't see the sense in your arguing if you aren't able or prepared to back it up. It turns what could be an opportunity for you to provide the rest of the forum with some highly valuable information, into a waste of time.

[blue penguin]

I wasn't trying to tell anyone how to do it, but simply raising it as an issue that is often neglected and is not at all difficult to deal with if you know what you're doing. If you don't know how to identify and safely handle such points of failure then you are too dangerous to attempt to redress those deficiencies in a forum posting that you aren't going to bother to read properly in the first place (since you clearly didn't bother to take on board anything said in previous posts). You need to find someone IRL who can see what you're doing and pull you up before you actually injure someone, and learn it properly. Then come back here and you'll understand the points I was addressing.

[entropy]

enough !

Time out. I think the OP got what he wanted - can we call a halt to the fighting across the table thanks.

[blue penguin]

That's fine by me, all I was ever setting out to do was make a valid and hopefully useful/informative contribution. I didn't really appreciate being targetted for it though - being new to this forum, I certainly hope that isn't standard practice!