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Fuel and fuel systems Petrol vs Diesel, LPG Conversions, premium fuels, and all that gas

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  #1  
Old 24-06-15
shawty950 shawty950 is offline
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Default DiD NT Fuel Starvation Thread - In tank Filter

2011 DiD with 120,000k.
Couple of months ago started getting fuel starvation where fuel level in tank was under a 1/4, and only when under a 1/4 tank.

Had just changed my secondary CAV fuel filter...changed it again thinking it was a dodgy one.

Problem came back again...to the point the motor stopped on the Gateway.
Noticed that the CAV filter was dry of fuel....used the hand pump and got fuel up to the OEM and the CAV.

Got it started and limped it to the servo and filled up. Immediately no starvation issues.

Thought that it was heat related, as low fuel and with the oversupply return from the injector pump was heating the fuel up and problem happened, put cool fuel in and the problem goes away again.

SCV was the next idea....most prevalent on the forum...replaced with Roberts Hi-spec scv.

Exact scenario and problem happened again.

At this point in time, I had a bit of a "your an idiot" moment and remembered an issue I had on my FI KTM 990....where the pre-filter sock on the in tank pump got almost clogged and on low levels in the tank would starve the pump.

Theory being that the filter/gauze is mostly blocked with dirt etc, when the fuel is hot it makes the gauze material swell and become totally blocked. When cool fuel goes in, it shrinks the material a little and fuel starts flowing again.

So I get on the Russian parts/fiche site and low and behold there is an in tank filter.

So I order the part and the parts guy advised getting the rubber tank seal as well.

Access is through a plate under the right rear passenger seat, which then gives access to a little cubbyhole, that has another oblong plate that needs to be removed. (This one is an absolute pain to get out as you have to turn it 90 degrees in a very tight space)
Then you have access to the tank ring underneath that has the inlet and return pipes and pickup attatched.

Pics
This the OEM on the pickup next to the new one



Close up Old one left, New on right



This pic I have rubbed the black plastic end and you can see where it has wiped off a oily/dirty section



Closeup of crap in gauze



So anyways, this was the problem, all been good since then.

It appears to be a sludgy type residue...non metallic and not gritty.

Parts are

MR 556587 - $31.50 - Tank Pickup Filter
MN 106046 - $15.00 - Tank Pickup Gasket

Following show location on tank
The filter is the bit hanging off Part # 20
http://faq.out-club.ru/download/paje...0326200ENG.HTM
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SOLD at 150k's - 2011 NT Platinum Diesel auto. Wheels and tyres, cav filter, caddy storage/ausguard barrier and icom IC-440N. NoLimit Tuning Chip. T13 Bullbar. Other stuff when money allows.

NOW - 2016 MQ Triton Exceed - All the TJM fruit re barwork and suspension, TJM canopy, twin diff locks OEM rear and Harrop front, breathers, rhinorack, eco foxwing

Last edited by shawty950; 10-09-15 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 24-06-15
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Rovingman Rovingman is offline
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http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/271587580962?nav=SEARCH

Is this the fuel filter your using?
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Old 25-06-15
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Excellent post, love this forum, 7.15 am and I have learnt something new today already.

cheers, old Jack.
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Old 25-06-15
shawty950 shawty950 is offline
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Hey Rovingman, effectively yes...except using the genuine delphi filters and it looks more like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FFK2141-D...item3f3219b5f2

I have the cav setup as the primary/1st filter, then the OEM as the secondary filter.

Shawty
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SOLD at 150k's - 2011 NT Platinum Diesel auto. Wheels and tyres, cav filter, caddy storage/ausguard barrier and icom IC-440N. NoLimit Tuning Chip. T13 Bullbar. Other stuff when money allows.

NOW - 2016 MQ Triton Exceed - All the TJM fruit re barwork and suspension, TJM canopy, twin diff locks OEM rear and Harrop front, breathers, rhinorack, eco foxwing
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Old 25-06-15
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Interesting post you put up.
Strange how it says in the description that it is not suitable for electronic fuel or CRD engines?
Considering it almost a must if travelling around in a CRD.
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Dark tint: Driftadraws:bushskinz set:tough dog lift:50lt waeco:MSA drop down slide: optima 66AH blue top: oricom cb:GME antenna:120w solar:narva 170 lights:hayman reese brake controller:18/265/65 BFG's :roof basket & bag:SPV MK3.1:ARB compressor: Donaldson fuel filter:breathers:Redarc 40amp:century 120AH dual batt: Blue tongue offroad trekka camper trailer :2016 winch n bar Airtek snorkel
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Old 04-08-16
bluscape bluscape is offline
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I have the exact same symptoms.

They first replaced my lift pump but the problem remained. They then replaced my SCV but the problem still remained.

I decided to drive the vehicle a bit more and try determine exactly when it happens before I spend any more money on trial and error. It became obvious that it only happens on a nearly empty tank. In my mind, the only thing that could cause fuel starvation on a nearly empty tank is the fuel pickup or tank.

I opened my tank at the same location and have the exact same in tank filter. My filter is clean but I found a spring loaded/floating valve inside the filter. The spring in my filter is completely collapsed. Why would there be a spring if its completely collapsed?

I ordered a filter last week. I'm not going to open the new filter to verify the spring but I'm guessing the spring is supposed to be expanded to push the valve open under certain conditions (For example when the tank is near empty). Or maybe the float does not float properly anymore.

If you still have the filter I'd appreciate it if you could post some photos of your filter internals.

I will report back once I've replaced and tested my new filter. It will only arrive in 20 days.
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Old 04-08-16
Trisome Trisome is offline
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A question I have is if you have an aftermarket and a factory filter would this eliminate the need to have a hard to get to, out of sight in tank filter?

Trisome
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Old 04-08-16
bluscape bluscape is offline
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@Trisome: I'm not sure if you're asking me or the discussion in general?

If you're asking me I'd say no. The in tank filter is the first point of contact with the fuel and is inside the tank, submerged in the fuel. If its clogged or not functioning, no other filter in the fuel path will solve the problem since it must first pass through the in tank filter. In my case the filter is not clogged but seems to be faulty due to the valve inside the filter.

So I re-read your question....

The in tank filter has a valve. I'm not sure what is the purpose of the valve but I've read somewhere that is has some purpose when the vehicle is not under load or vice versa. Not certain.
I would not want to remove the in tank filter and modify the functioning of the fuel system especially when it has a valve. I guess once you know the purpose of the valve one can make a better decision.

Last edited by bluscape; 04-08-16 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 04-08-16
erad erad is offline
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Bluescape replied, quoting a spring inside the strainer/filter which sits inside the tank. Could it be that the spring and flap is actually a non-return vallve which is designed to improve the priming of the fuel pump? Since a lot of the fuel line runs at a higher level than the tank and more importantly the fuel level in the tank, it makes sense to help prime the line if a foot valve is included in the system.
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Old 05-08-16
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Write up I did for my NP back in 2008, different part but same location.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ead.php?t=7655
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