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PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 Covering 2.5 HP diesel

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  #21  
Old 19-10-14
aaron.miller aaron.miller is offline
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Is anyone else concerned about the change to the glycol level?
I'm assuming that when the recall is performed a sticker updating this information is affixed to the car and the user manual.
If the car is serviced by a mechanic and they put in the std 30% glycol and then the engine overheats you can assume Mitsubishi will walk away from the issue.
The fact they are changing the glycol level has to say they are concerned there is a big issue even with the passed engines, this has to effect resale value.
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  #22  
Old 19-10-14
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old Jack old Jack is offline
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Hi Aaron,
Yes I am concerned about the MMAL "fix", I am traveling at the moment so I do not have access to all my resources but from memory an increase from 30% to 50% will only increase the boiling temp of the coolant about 3 degrees.

I have not done the calculations on the effect of the increase in system pressure but it will most likely have a greater effect than the coolant % change. From memory I think I had previously calculated the systems theoretical boiling point was 125C or 127C.

I struggle to see why increasing the boiling point of the coolant is going to resolve the real reason for overheating.

Should have some answers by this coming Friday.

cheers, old Jack.
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  #23  
Old 19-10-14
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littleriver littleriver is offline
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whilst working at Nissan in the 90's we were told to mix 50/50 coolant to water ... I also here on the grapevine, mitsubishi's premix coolant is 50/50 and also with other manufacturers premix ... mitsubishi's manufacturing plant in Thailand was doing the 30/70 mix (go figure) ....
with a 50/50 mix just alone the freezing/boiling point isC2H6O2/Water: -37 C / -35 F - 106 C / 223 F ...
pressurising the radiator will increase the boiling point also .....
my calculation would be at 50/50 mix boiling point pressurized
is approximately 129.4 Deg C. with 15 lb psi raditor cap ...

now with the 20 lb psi radiator cap it would now have a boiling point of approx. 135 Deg C ....

Many of the vehicles driving under own load were not affected, but once they were towing and loaded to the max. they hit the hills they would heat up. Once pulled over and rested temp would go down to within normal operating temperatures.
Put any vehicle on a dyno and load it up and watch the temps rise (dyno shops give vehicles a bit of a breather between load testing for a reason) ....
Lets' hope this resolves the issue.

Last edited by littleriver; 19-10-14 at 11:55 PM.
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  #24  
Old 20-10-14
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old Jack old Jack is offline
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Thanks for the pressure info LR.

MMAL must be confident in the strength of the bonded plastic tank/aluminium core radiator to take the working pressure up 30% to 20psi.

The electric fan operates when the AC is on but is it also wired up on a thermal switch to operate? I have never checked. If not it should be a fairly straight forward mod to fit.

It will be worthwhile posting bullbar, driving light and underbody guard details of those vehicles that are having overheating issues.

cheers, old Jack.
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  #25  
Old 20-10-14
spot01 spot01 is offline
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Default Customers rights under Australian Consumer Law

It sounds to me like the vehicle's cooling systems may be marginal, particularly when used in arduous conditions or towing heavy loads, noting MMAL promote the vehicles capabilities as rugged 4WD's with 3 tonne towing capacity. Or some vehicles may not have been built to spec and MMAL is trying to see if they can avoid large costs &/or replacements by tweaking the cooling systems - if so, this is not fixing the cause of the problem. Given the amount of testing they do before releasing a vehicle, it could be the spec is just OK but the production tolerances or quality is not.

Notwithstanding MMAL's long factory warranty, Australian consumer law requires consumer durables (including motor vehicles) to "be fit for purpose", "be of merchantable quality" and "to perform the intended function for a reasonable period of time". In the case of a motor vehicle and particularly one so heavily promoted as having these capabilities, the consumer law requirements may well come into play if MMAL can't solve this issue satisfactorily. If it gets to the point where customers are considering selling their vehicles because they don't perform as advertised, customers should seek advice as to their possible remedies under the consumer legislation. Obviously there is strength in numbers and this sometimes leads to class actions, etc. It may be worthwhile to retain some of their advertising material in case you need it down the track. Obviously, any non genuine accessories that may negatively impact airflow or cooling performance, or modifications that may cause the vehicle to work harder than designed, eg, chips, over diameter tyres, etc., could create further issues with any claims.

Also of concern, would be if MMAL manage to get the vehicles to only just keep their cool when new, how will they perform when they are older and the cooling system is no longer squeaky clean and looses a little of its efficiency?

Further, anyone with a vehicle that has severely overheated may have hidden damage from that event that will only show up later on. They should insist on a written statement from MMAL acknowledging the incident, confirming the action taken, etc., as this may be useful if later problems appear.

Anyone with serious concerns that are not fully resolved to their satisfaction by the dealer should put them in writing to the dealer & MMAL requesting a written response. This will ensure everything is "on the record" and is more likely to result in a satisfactory outcome. This would include questions regarding warranty extensions, new motors, etc., as mentioned by j3st3r below. It will also assist if there are later problems. If none of this works, there is always your state Office of Fair Trading, or equivalent.

I suspect this saga still has a few chapters to come.

Last edited by spot01; 20-10-14 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Additional comments re getting it in writing, warranty & modifications
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  #26  
Old 20-10-14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spot01 View Post
Further, anyone with a vehicle that has severely overheated may have hidden damage from that event that will only show up later on. They should insist on a written statement from MMAL acknowledging the incident, confirming the action taken, etc., as this may be useful if later problems appear.

I suspect this saga still has a few chapters to come.
I have been wondering about this as the dealer I took mine to said that the radiator had partially melted. This says that there was a lot of heat under the bonnet so what other parts have been affected by all this heat. Also how does servicing and warranty work from here on in.

What warranty goes on the new motor if the PC model is also being checked for this problem then they are still putting out motors that may have this issue or they dont know what is causing it. Does my new replacement motor now only have 55000km warranty on it.

When servicing do I get 15000km service on the motor and 120000km on the rest does capped price servicing start again on the new motor or what decides the cost of the miss matched service plans from here on out.

I've also been wondering if my turbo suddenly starting to leak oil not long after the 90k service may have been related to the engine overheating, either as a cause of the problem or as a first sign of the problem eg the oil getting hotter than normal and thinning out and leaking through the seal.
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Last edited by j3st3r; 20-10-14 at 09:49 AM.
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  #27  
Old 20-10-14
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perrys perrys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleriver View Post
picked mine up yesterday ....

*** not sure if it was the upgrade or coincidence but the car is holding revs (manual) when changing into next gear and also when you take your foot of the accelerator it tends to keep going instead of slowing down using engine breaking (just for about 2 seconds) ***
Interestingly enough, I noticed similar behaviour after I picked up my vehicle after having the looms replaced about a month ago - more so the revs keeps going a bit once you depress the clutch, not so much when I just let off the accelerator. I must of had the same ECU remap done but they did not mention it.
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  #28  
Old 20-10-14
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littleriver littleriver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perrys View Post
Interestingly enough, I noticed similar behaviour after I picked up my vehicle after having the looms replaced about a month ago - more so the revs keeps going a bit once you depress the clutch, not so much when I just let off the accelerator. I must of had the same ECU remap done but they did not mention it.
will start a new thread on this
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  #29  
Old 20-10-14
Giddyup Giddyup is offline
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Some of the problems could have been avoided if Mitsubishi had actually used a temperature guage that reflects the engine temperature. Not a guage that starts to move after the engine is already melting down. People would be more likely to slow down if they knew the engine was getting warm. Mind you the forums would be full of people complaining that the temp guage was moving too. Unfortunately it's pretty common for manufacturers to do this because people get concerned if the guage moves.

Changing coolant mixes and radiator caps isn't fixing the fault. 50% glycol at 20 psi boils at around 135C. If the engine temp is getting anywhere close to that, there is something wrong with the cooling system. Increasing glycol reduces the heat capacity of the coolant, so the boiling point may be increased, but the amount of heat that the system can remove is decreased. It may lead to higher running temps.

If cooling capacity is marginal, people with air flow blocking aftermarket accessories on the front of their car might want to change things.

The engine isn't made to run at those sorts of temperatures. If it hits those temps for
any length of time, it's going to start having problems.

BTW from what I've heard it's not a recall, it's a service campaign.
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  #30  
Old 20-10-14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giddyup View Post
BTW from what I've heard it's not a recall, it's a service campaign.
Correct
Dave
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