Smartbar info

[greig]

Theyare a funny thing, the smart bar. People seem to like em or hate em..

Personally, I think they are the best looking bar I have seen on an NT. I would have one in a minute if the cash was available.

Steve

As always......beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ??

I think a few people ( maybe only 2 or 3 ?? ) actually like the MM bar for the PS.....

[Dicko1]

The below is from Smartbar when they sent me the info yesterday. Bars should be available from next week, when the last of the parts come in.

"As far as the pricing is concerned the non winch retail price is $2150 and $2475 for the winch version. Both include a secondary set of DRL lights in the bar as per the images however there is some discussion on making these optional and thus making the RRP lower but that is something you can discuss with the distributor. You can purchase these at any ARB 4x4 store (we are owned by ARB) or there are other distributors around Adelaide if depending on your location."

I like the look of it and would be good to see it on different coloured cars.

Cheers Cookie

Owned by arb...that explains the rip off prices...

[old Jack]

Owned by arb...that explains the rip off prices...

Pre ARB, Smartbars were $1600 to $1900 fitted. The extra percieved value that the ARB brand name brings to a product is reflected in the increase in price and return to the shareholders. Is this any different to the Toyota Tax?
The days of a heavy duty steel bullbar on modern 4wds are numbered, it is only a matter of time before steel bars and even alloy bars will be replaced by moulded plastic bars.

cheers, OJ.

[greig]

The days of a heavy duty steel bullbar on modern 4wds are numbered, it is only a matter of time before steel bars and even alloy bars will be replaced by moulded plastic bars.

cheers, OJ.

Why ???

Are plastic bars proven to be better at animal strikes than steel bars ??

If so, I'd like to see the proof !!

[conquistador]

I think 4wd action did a comparison a while back. By recollection the tuffbar (think cow catcher) came out in front for deformation (of the bar)But it lost points for weighing a tonne (which may make push it over frot axle load limits) and having absolutely no approach angle. I think the five posters may be illegal in some states.

I think the smart bar came out in the top half. With the overall winner if memory serves me correct being a tjm t13 bar unsure if it was alloy or steel.

Many fancied runners including steel ones didn't fare as well a one would have thought. With deformation on impact. The smart bar I think has memory in that it will return to position.


Everything is a compromise, having had a look at behind the smart bar and Arbs new alloy bar this week I'd back the smartbar.

[SenojNW]

I'd say pedestrian safety will also eventually influence it. Not saying I necessarily agree but...

[greig]

Everything is a compromise, having had a look at behind the smart bar and Arbs new alloy bar this week I'd back the smartbar.

But what about the normal steel ARB bar ??

Doesn't matter how much you butter a turd....it's still a turd !!

[ticky]

Pre ARB, Smartbars were $1600 to $1900 fitted. The extra percieved value that the ARB brand name brings to a product is reflected in the increase in price and return to the shareholders. Is this any different to the Toyota Tax?
The days of a heavy duty steel bullbar on modern 4wds are numbered, it is only a matter of time before steel bars and even alloy bars will be replaced by moulded plastic bars.

cheers, OJ.

I could be wrong but I think any emergency services vehicle that requires a bar has to use a plastic one now.

Steve

[old Jack]

Why ???

Are plastic bars proven to be better at animal strikes than steel bars ??

If so, I'd like to see the proof !!

The reasons I believe the days of metal bars are numbered are;

1. Designs of new 4wds is making it harder to design and make a metal bar that complies with the rules.

2.The rules keep getting stricter as the vocal minority have a greater influence over the rule makers.

3. The structures at the front of modern 4wds are getting weaker (by design) so eventually they will not be strong enough to carry the weight of a heavy duty steel bar.

A plastic bar will absorb more impact energy and transfer less force into the cabin and the occupants. Plastic bars have a memory so they will return to almost to the original shape after an impact (this can take up to 24 hours). A Smartbar has been tested on a Hilux and it has improved the NCAP score. Many underground mines are now specifying a Smartbar for underground operations in preference to metal bars.

An alloy bar will absorb less impact than a plastic bar but much more than a steel as aluminium is soft and yields easily on impact. Alloy work hardens as it deforms and gets stronger. An alloy bar can not be straightened, the bent sections must be replaced as the alloy becomes brittle and loses its ability to absorb an impact.

A steel bar will take a higher impact before it will bend but these impact forces are transmitted into the vehicles structure and occupants. Once a steel bar starts to deform the steel weakens and loses strength. If a steel bar is bent and then straightened it will be weaker than when new.

Do you think ARB would waste their time and money on buying Smartbar and developing the product unless they could see a commercial future for this technology?

I recall similar views in regards to seat belts, airbags, ABS and stability control, all these technologies have proven to add safety to the people and are now mandatory inclusion in modern cars.

cheers, OJ.

[Wazzap]

A plastic bar will absorb more impact energy and transfer less force into the cabin and the occupants. Plastic bars have a memory so they will return to almost to the original shape after an impact (this can take up to 24 hours). A Smartbar has been tested on a Hilux and it has improved the NCAP score. Many underground mines are now specifying a Smartbar for underground operations in preference to metal bars.

My brother recently got a new company car with a plastic bar fitted (unsure if it's smartbar branded or otherwise) and hit a roo on his way home one night - I was over his place a couple of days later and had a look at the bar, and couldn't even pick where the impact was - not a single mark on the bar! Not sure if a steel/alloy bar would have done the same (maybe he was just lucky and it just glanced off the side of the bar), but either way to hit a roo and come away completely unscathed is pretty impressive.

[greig]

My brother recently got a new company car with a plastic bar fitted (unsure if it's smartbar branded or otherwise) and hit a roo on his way home one night - I was over his place a couple of days later and had a look at the bar, and couldn't even pick where the impact was - not a single mark on the bar! Not sure if a steel/alloy bar would have done the same (maybe he was just lucky and it just glanced off the side of the bar), but either way to hit a roo and come away completely unscathed is pretty impressive.

Sounds like a good story, but unless all the exact details of an animal strike are known, you can't compare it to a steel bar...or alloy.

Everyone knows the idea behind a bullbar is to take as much force from a roo strike with minimal damage to the 4wd, so in an ideal world, it would be still driveable. Which helps if you are 200K's from the nearest town.

With the exact same scenario with a Smartbar, I don't believe they are strong enough to prevent the equivalent damage to the 4wd.

Whether they can or will "bounce" back into shape is irrelevent in a serious hit.

[OldEmmGee]

Sorry to burst anyones bubble here.....

An alloy or steel bullbar can actually INCREASE the damage sustained by the vehicle, not reduce it.

I am speaking from experience of actual crash testing results on Mitsubishi vehicles here.

I could not believe how in the offset 15kph test how much additional damage was sustained by the vehice - the test without the front protection bar the vehicle was significantly damaged, of course, but with a front protection bar the bar actually transmitted more damage through the fender and bonnet; actually causing the creasing to go all the way back to the A-pillar.

I suspect in the real world, the front protection bar means your vehicle has a chance of driving away form a 'significant' impact, but your vehicle repair bill will be higher.

I run nudgebars on my vehicles (protect the radiator and provide a location for the driving lights) as I don't do any significant off road work.

[old Jack]

Comments in "blue".

Sounds like a good story, but unless all the exact details of an animal strike are known, you can't compare it to a steel bar...or alloy.
Agree, unless testing is carried out under controlled conditions then there are too many variables.

Everyone knows the idea behind a bullbar is to take as much force from a roo strike with minimal damage to the 4wd, so in an ideal world, it would be still driveable. Which helps if you are 200K's from the nearest town.
Agree, I do not care about a dented bonnet or panel, a broken light or grille but I do not want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere.

With the exact same scenario with a Smartbar, I don't believe they are strong enough to prevent the equivalent damage to the 4wd.
Lets agree to disagree on this point.

Whether they can or will "bounce" back into shape is irrelevent in a serious hit.
Actually this was one of the things that made me choose a Smartbar. I have had metal (steel and alloy) bars that have bent to such and extent that I could not open the bonnet to inspect the engine and radiator and in one situation with an alloy loop bar, a big hit resulted in the edge of the bar being pushed back onto the tyre. When we do extended long trips a bar that recovers gives me continued protection from more than 1 hit. I have had multiple designs of alloy bars including my own custom design. All where 1 hit wonders and need to be replaced after the hit. The steel bars we used to use on 55 and 60 series LC's that sat 300mm away from the body were repaired once only as they always failed more easily after being repaired.

No one likes to have a animal strike and any bar is better than no bar at all, even a nudge bar could mean the difference between being able to drive the car or being stranded.

Rules and community expectations are changing, and it will not be long before heavy steel bars are longer made for modern medium duty 4wds, already it is near impossible to get a steel bar for a modern passenger vehicle yet 30 years ago it was easy. Why do you think ARB are now making alloy and plastic bars?
If you want to hang on to a steel bar then you better hang on to an existing vehicle.

cheers, OJ.

[Pwoffey]

Front protection bars are a bit like tyres and batteries - not much agreement among afficionados and if there were one perfect bit of kit for all occasions we would all have that one. Especially with bars there's a whole lot of anecdote, historical and emotional attachment, and opinions on aesthetics going on, and not a whole lot of scientific comparisons. The original tests done by the Road Accident Research Unit at the University of Adelaide were pretty convincing about the relative attributes of the Smartbar *under the test conditions employed*. Of course, these may not translate into all situations out in the field, but they provide at least some objective evidence where little is to be had. Does the better protection to pedestrians mean less protection for vehicle and occupants? The tests suggested not, but again these were tests in controlled conditions in the lab. (BTW I can't seem to find the relevant detailed testing video on the web just now. They had been up for several years. There are some snippets within other marketing style videos, but that's not really as helpful. Originals taken down by new owner?? Or am I just not looking properly?)

I suspect OJ is right in predicting more restrictions on the design of frontal protection bars - and indeed whether the style of vehicles coming out in the next decade will be compatible with the range we have available now.

Anyway, on a purely personal note, I'm very happy with the appearance and functionality of my Smartbar, although I've yet to hit a pedestrian or roo (or even a test bollard) to inspire my own anecdote and prop up my personal opinion. If I do, and if I survive, you may be sure I'd report it straight away to the Forum . [In case my wife is reading this, I am not looking to do a test.]

[ticky]

When I looked at Bars at the C&C show a couple of weeks ago, I had an (opposition)salesman tell me that Steel & Alloy Bars have brackets for Spots, Arial, sand flag where the smartbar you had to drill into it, thus loosing structural integrity.

When I looked at the smartbar, and spoke to the Business Development Manager of smartbar, he told me that you can drill into them with No Loss of Structural Integrity, However, he showed me Brass Nuts moldered into the the bar everywhere, with caps over them so there would be no need, at least in My opinion, to have to drill into it to mount accessories.

Steve