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PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 Covering 2.5 HP diesel

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  #21  
Old 24-10-14
fester fester is offline
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Yes a point I forgot Ent, so many people are over thinking something by its nature that can't be 100% infallibly accurate. Pretty much everyone is measuring by holding the tape pretty much in the middle of the hub and pretty much straight up to the guard. Even variances of 5 ish mm are hardly worth considering. I guarantee you if 2 people went and bought the same suspension kit from the same supplier and put them on 2 equally standard cars there could be a variance of a couple of mm.

No one has even clarified exactly how the legal measurement was performed, even different tape measures can have a variance of a mm or 2.
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  #22  
Old 25-10-14
Ent Ent is offline
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Hi

The apparently endless research continues. Anyone used or has much idea on Tough Dog. Their claimed lift is a modest 25mm with spring options to deal with standard, bullbar, bullbar plus winch. Claim load is 0+300 for the rear which probably suits me. As mentioned this modest lift is about what I am aiming at.

Now always a bit dubious of what been told but the bloke selling the setup is the bloke fitting it and appeared aware of what to watch for. Interesting he is a fan of Bilstein shocks but did mention that they tend to use one valve configuration suits all, while he claims Tough Dog spend more time on valve combinations. On another thread the lack of Bilstein fine tuning the valve configuration was mentioned.

About $2,100 fitted so some thought is needed. Also decision on bullbar and winch to be made. Rather tempted by the Rhino bar with a winch with rope rather than cable to keep the front axle weight under control. Apparently that saves 16kg which given it is ahead of the front axle could reduce the impact on handling.

So thoughts and experience please. The other option on the short list is the BushskinZ Bilstein option.

Cheers
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2014 PC Challenger, manual, factory tow-bar, factory front diff protector, TJM inter-cooler plate, Bushskinz manual transmission protection plate, ProRack S16 roof racks, front elocker, Drummond Motor Sport front struts, custom 16mm King rear springs with Bilstein Dampeners, Buzz Rack Runner 3 bike platform, Eclipse Nav head unit, GME TX3800BW UHF, 16x8 CSA Raptor rims, 265/75R16 Maxxis MT-762, orToyo AT/2 265/70R16 Triton rims, BFGoodrich 235/85/R16 Triton rims, or Factory tyres and rims.
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  #23  
Old 25-10-14
02-SR5 02-SR5 is offline
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Way to many people get hung up on how high a suspension lift will go.

No two are exact, it is a rough guestimate.

If you go with a quality suspension product that suits your needs, fit that.

Dont lose sleep if one says 30mm lift and another says 50mm lift. It is a guess.

Go with a reputable suspension company, fit some 265/70/17 A/T tyres and you will be more than happy with the performance.

As for bullbar, I am a fan of ARB and I have just fitted a Runva 11xp winch with rope.

However, I wish companies took into consideration when designing their bullbars when fitting a winch when the bar is fitted. It is a pain in the arse to fit a winch when the bar is fitted if it is not designed to.

The Jeep Wrangler has the best set up. Just drop the winch into the bar and bolt on. 5 min job.
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MY17 Triton GLX Plus with Mitsubishi Canopy. Keeping it light and simple. 265/70/16 Nitto's, Bilstien shocks, Kings Springs front, Formula leafs rear, ECB nudge bar, Ligjtforce 170's, twin batteries and a ARB fridge.
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  #24  
Old 25-10-14
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littleriver littleriver is offline
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.

x2

nice choice of tire size also .... giving overall clearance .... approx. 1/2inch in tyre height ( A/T tread approx. 1/2 inch)
could be the 1 inch lift just there

most of the lifts give a body lift ... still have to clear the diffs

*** might have to ask the expert OJ to clarify ***

.

The other day I was in the local car park was parked next to a 2010 Pajero, I noticed that the side
steps looked a little lower - so I did a quick measure (yeps approx 2 inches lower then the 2012 Challenger side steps)
ground clearance on the pajero is 225mm and challenger is 220mm (so has 5mm up on us) stock ...


.

Last edited by littleriver; 25-10-14 at 10:37 PM.
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  #25  
Old 25-10-14
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old Jack old Jack is offline
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Ent,
Static ground clearance is not the most important thing, if you go too high in the lift and too hard with the springs then suspension articulation will be compromised and this will limit you off road.
Trust me on this, go linear rate coils at the front and progressive rate coils in the rear, aim for the 565mm front and 580mm rear at your fully accessorised running kerb weight, use good quality springs and shockers. You should be able to do this for less than $2K fitted.

cheers, old Jack.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT245/75/16, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
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  #26  
Old 26-10-14
Ent Ent is offline
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Yeap Old-Jack they are the numbers that I am looking at. Main thing I want is suspension that does not collapse to readily to the bump stops, or so hard that wheel articulation does not happen. This is more important to me than a head line suspension height lift height number. For warranty and legal reasons I do want to keep around the 25mm mark so for better or worse the upper limit is important, if only for that reason.

When testing out arch clearance on the 265/75/16 MT I was rather amazed that by placing the static load of the vehicle by balancing it on two wheels slightly nose down the front suspension on the compressed side was sitting on the bump stops with no load in the vehicle. This translate to the vehicle "collapsing" as the left and right wheels ride over rocks with a slight nose down drop. So despite higher static ground clearance than a 2007 Ranger Ute the Challenger bumped a lot more on rocky tracks with the gentle drops being particularly challenging. Even at idle speed it was hard to roll over the rocks.

I have a thought process to go through with the winch or no winch debate. I much prefer a slow and steady recovery than snatch strap approach. But frankly, I pike situations where I need to be recovered much preferring not to push the limits. The decision on suspension is forcing my hand on this issue.

I drove a Ranger Ute fitted with massive bull bar and steel cable winch, and it was horrible. The Ranger normally is a nicely balanced ute,but this was a nose heavy pig that could wander in a straight line and bump steer on the most minor imperfection in the road surface.

But Rhino have not replied to my email so may well abandon the winch idea.

The trick is to get suspension fitted locally. Sadly, we do not have an independent suspension shop in the North of Tassie that I am aware of. I have seen too many botched suspension jobs so rather more circumspect on this issue than otherwise I would be.

Cheers
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2014 PC Challenger, manual, factory tow-bar, factory front diff protector, TJM inter-cooler plate, Bushskinz manual transmission protection plate, ProRack S16 roof racks, front elocker, Drummond Motor Sport front struts, custom 16mm King rear springs with Bilstein Dampeners, Buzz Rack Runner 3 bike platform, Eclipse Nav head unit, GME TX3800BW UHF, 16x8 CSA Raptor rims, 265/75R16 Maxxis MT-762, orToyo AT/2 265/70R16 Triton rims, BFGoodrich 235/85/R16 Triton rims, or Factory tyres and rims.
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  #27  
Old 26-10-14
02-SR5 02-SR5 is offline
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Isnt there an ARB in North Tassie?

I too prefer a winch over a snatch. I run a Runva 11xp and paid $650 delivered.

ARB do a complete suspension kit that would suit you. They do a basic suspension kit to a full HD with rear bars and winches. Their springs and shocks are designed specific to each other.

Just some food for thought.
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MY17 Triton GLX Plus with Mitsubishi Canopy. Keeping it light and simple. 265/70/16 Nitto's, Bilstien shocks, Kings Springs front, Formula leafs rear, ECB nudge bar, Ligjtforce 170's, twin batteries and a ARB fridge.
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  #28  
Old 26-10-14
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old Jack old Jack is offline
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Hi Ent,

Sorry you are not getting the answers you are looking for, but suspension upgrades are not a one size fits all solution.

Suspension, if you want to get it right the first time round then you need to know you front and rear weights, either a weigh-bridge or you can do a calculation as follows;

Front weight (stock factory) is about 1100 kg, then add the weight of;
a) front passengers
b) under body guards
c) bullbar
d) winch
e) aux battery
f) extra weight of LT tyres

Front axle limit is 1260kg, so you can see it is really easy to exceed this!

Rear weight (stock factory) is about 950kg, then add the weight of;
a) Rear passengers
b) Towbar
c) aux battery
d) roof rack
e) fridge
f) recovery gear.
g) tools
h) tow ball down load (if towing)
i) what ever else you want to carry

Rear axle limit is 1600kg and it is not hard to exceed this either.

Once you have your weights then it is easy to calculate required spring rates.

Ride height is dependant on spring rates and spring free length as this is fairly easy to calculate also.

Difficulty is get spring rates and free lengths from spring manufacturers, also on rear coils you need to know if they are progressive rate variable, 2 stage linear or linear so on these you need a rate of change table or graph.

In regards to a winch, I was going to fit one, having had power winches for 35 years, but no matter how hard I tried I could not get the numbers to add up. I ended up buying 2 sets of Maxtraxs, this is about the same price as a cheap winch, lighter, more flexible and safer to use.

cheers, old Jack.
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2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT245/75/16, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Lockup Mate.
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  #29  
Old 26-10-14
02-SR5 02-SR5 is offline
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There is an ARB dealer in Devonport (North West 4wd) and Launceston (ARB). Dont know how far they are from you, but may be worth a try.

Not sure what your exactly trying to achieve, lift, load carrying or both.

Decide what you want long term and decide on a suspension package to suit.
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MY17 Triton GLX Plus with Mitsubishi Canopy. Keeping it light and simple. 265/70/16 Nitto's, Bilstien shocks, Kings Springs front, Formula leafs rear, ECB nudge bar, Ligjtforce 170's, twin batteries and a ARB fridge.
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  #30  
Old 26-10-14
Ent Ent is offline
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Done the sums and decided that a bull bar with winch is not for me, again. Honestly, bit annoyed by Rhino censorship approach so decided stuff it. Also, given my level (or lack of) willingness to push the limits highly unlikely that I will use one. Not having a Challenger in such a configuration to test drive also worried by the handling implications. So now to hunt for a Tirfor winch. Also may consider down the track a front locker if I get too adventurous.

So with that decided looking at suspension options. While for reasons that I can not give a valid logical reason for to I am rather anti ARB. But having said that they are on the right lift mms so will approach the local store.

Tough Dog at this stage tick many of the boxes but decided to email Climax for their setup. Happy to spend up big on quality dampeners. But as mentioned the valving is important so bit wary on Bisteins. Rather tempted by the top of the line Koni dampeners.

So at least I have worked out what I am aiming for, which in many ways the most important thing.

Cheers
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2014 PC Challenger, manual, factory tow-bar, factory front diff protector, TJM inter-cooler plate, Bushskinz manual transmission protection plate, ProRack S16 roof racks, front elocker, Drummond Motor Sport front struts, custom 16mm King rear springs with Bilstein Dampeners, Buzz Rack Runner 3 bike platform, Eclipse Nav head unit, GME TX3800BW UHF, 16x8 CSA Raptor rims, 265/75R16 Maxxis MT-762, orToyo AT/2 265/70R16 Triton rims, BFGoodrich 235/85/R16 Triton rims, or Factory tyres and rims.
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