Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum

Go Back   Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum > General Information > Where the rubber hits the road.

Where the rubber hits the road. Discussion about drive train; (locking) diffs; wheels; hubs; suspension and, of course, tyres

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-07-18
ilikeachallenge ilikeachallenge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: victoria
Posts: 63
Default Oztec suspension....tell me more

Hi all,
After reading some positive comments by OJ and LR in another thread I have started looking at Oztec suspension as I've added quite a lot of weight to the PC and am still running oem suspension.Conveniently they have a local distributor and I will take the care in for them to assess soon.
The great suspension upgrade debate becomes more confusing the more you read.The vehicle is used as a tourer,tow rig for the camper trailer and wood trailer and also does quite a lot of local vic high country,steep greasy slippery type work.
Surprisingly it handles it all ok but could be sooo much better.
I need it to be well behaved on road and as supple as possible of road when climbing etc and not be lifting wheels.
So what is collectively known about the oztec product and what recommendations do people have given my set up as listed in my signature.
Steel TJM bar and winch,Full set of 3mm ARB bash plates,rasslar rock sliders plus basic storage system and constant rear load of approximately 40 kg in recovery gear etc
I don't carry the fridge or dual battery daily but they are on board for longer trips.

Cheers
__________________
2014 Ironbark Auto PC. TJM Bullbar and 9500 lb winch with rope,Safari snorkel,ARB bashplates,factory rear locker,BFG KO2 all terrains,custom rear storage and false floor,second row Engel 40 lt fridge mount,tint,Rasslar rock sliders,100 amp dual battery with 40 amp dcdc charger,45 cent EGR resistor mod,MM tow bar,GME 40 channel uhf with RFI antenna,I drive throttle controller,hard wired 180 lt per minute compressor,kings 2.5x3mt awning,Xray spots,OztecKings combo.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-18
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,595
Default

Yes the great suspension decision dilemma, what ever you do it will be an improvement on a worn factory suspension as long as you do not go cheap and nasty or too high.
Factory ride heights are 542mm front and 552mm rear, max lift on the front is 30mm to 35mm and max lift on the rear is 35mm to 40mm with an auto trans, and 40mm to 50mm with a manual trans.

A OzTec/King combo is very good value at around $1000 for parts then $400 to $500 to fit, this is a good upgrade for recreational 4wds that do not travel really heavy, tow heavy or travel for extended periods on badly corrugated roads at GVM or greater weights. Add a few hundred more to the budget and this will get you a Lovells/TJM /ARB/Ultimate/ Peddars/EFS/Dobinson etc etc but are these systems that much better and worth it or are you just paying for the brand name and national support and warranty? Add a few hundred more and you can get a Bistein/King combo this will give you a "performance suspension" this may or not be to an individual's liking in regards to comfort but the on road handing will be very responsive. If you are travelling very heavy and for extended periods on badly corrugated roads then if you add a few hundred more and you can upgrade shockers and struts to either Koni or Dobinson MT. Add a few hundred more and you can get Dobinson MRR or Drummond RR.

Regardless of which system you choose the best upgrade you can do is to replace the factory rubber spring assist cones with Peddars 5899, at $125 a pair these protect your rear coils and prevent harsh bottoming out of the rear coils no matter what coils you have fitted and are more reliable than airbags.

With your requirement to run almost empty and then loaded up and towing means you really need progressive rate rear coils.

There is no perfect one size fits all suspension upgrade and what I like and expect may well be different from the next person. You will find polarised opinions both for and against all brand. If you can drive other people's Challengers then this will give you an idea of what you like or dislike.

From my experience most suppliers tend to recommend front coils that are too high and too firm and rear coils that are too low and too soft. Struts and shockers that are too hard on compression and too soft on rebound. Make it very clear what ride heights you are prepared to accept, the level of comfort vs handling and the weight carrying capacity of the rear. Ask if there are any charges for changing the coils over if you are unhappy with the results and how many changes they will do for the included price.

OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

Last edited by old Jack; 30-08-18 at 07:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-07-18
littleriver's Avatar
littleriver littleriver is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Queensland
Posts: 3,234
Default

x2 on the above ... pretty happy with our Oztecs front and rear with Kings ... (within GVM) ...

put another variable I just chanced upon - "EFS" $1156 + $200 to fit - 30mm lift HD front 95kg and HD rear 200kg

OJ" have you any info also on these ?

https://www.mccdandenong.com.au/inde...shi+challenger


...
__________________
2012 PB Challenger LS (Manual) - OZtec shocks front & rear with King Springs (lift 2 inch) , 22 inch front #plate light bar, roof racks & basket, Bridgestone Duelers 697 LT A/T,Dash cam, 2 way radio 80 channel, Ipod connected via glove box usb, Waeco cf50, Garmin gps (with topo), Opticoat + paint protection, Nilrust proofing, Roosystems Ecu Remap
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-07-18
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littleriver View Post
x2 on the above ... pretty happy with our Oztecs front and rear with Kings ... (within GVM) ...

put another variable I just chanced upon - "EFS" $1156 + $200 to fit - 30mm lift HD front 95kg and HD rear 200kg

OJ" have you any info also on these ?

https://www.mccdandenong.com.au/inde...shi+challenger


...
Sorry no info on EFS, mixed reports on Internet just like every other suspension kit, found this thread;
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...t=50756&page=2

OJ
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-07-18
littleriver's Avatar
littleriver littleriver is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Queensland
Posts: 3,234
Default

geeze a quick search came up with these on special ...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EFS-Lift...-/132021168223

All 4 Adventure still rave about them

...
__________________
2012 PB Challenger LS (Manual) - OZtec shocks front & rear with King Springs (lift 2 inch) , 22 inch front #plate light bar, roof racks & basket, Bridgestone Duelers 697 LT A/T,Dash cam, 2 way radio 80 channel, Ipod connected via glove box usb, Waeco cf50, Garmin gps (with topo), Opticoat + paint protection, Nilrust proofing, Roosystems Ecu Remap
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-07-18
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littleriver View Post
geeze a quick search came up with these on special ...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EFS-Lift...-/132021168223

All 4 Adventure still rave about them

...
Or this,
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...10323000&ver=0

Keep in mind these deals are for unassembled struts so there is extra labour involved swapping the top hat mounts over.
Trouble with All 4 Adventure endorsement is EFS is a sponsor and they are not driving Challengers!

OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-07-18
littleriver's Avatar
littleriver littleriver is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Queensland
Posts: 3,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Or this,
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...10323000&ver=0

Keep in mind these deals are for unassembled struts so there is extra labour involved swapping the top hat mounts over.
Trouble with All 4 Adventure endorsement is EFS is a sponsor and they are not driving Challengers!

OJ.
well said ...



...
__________________
2012 PB Challenger LS (Manual) - OZtec shocks front & rear with King Springs (lift 2 inch) , 22 inch front #plate light bar, roof racks & basket, Bridgestone Duelers 697 LT A/T,Dash cam, 2 way radio 80 channel, Ipod connected via glove box usb, Waeco cf50, Garmin gps (with topo), Opticoat + paint protection, Nilrust proofing, Roosystems Ecu Remap
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-08-18
ilikeachallenge ilikeachallenge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: victoria
Posts: 63
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Yes the great suspension decision dilemma, what ever you do it will be an improvement on a worn factory suspension as long as you do not go cheap and nasty or too high.
Factory ride heights are 542mm front and 552mm rear, max lift on the front is 30mm to 35mm and max lift on the rear is 35mm to 40mm with an auto trans and 40mm to 50mm with a manual trans.

A OzTec/King combo is very good value at around $1000 for parts then $400 to $500 to fit, this is a good upgrade for recreational 4wds that do not travel really heavy, tow heavy or travel for extended periods on badly corrugated roads at GVM or greater weights. Add a few hundred more to the budget and this will get you a Lovells/TJM /ARB/Ultimate/ Peddars/EFS/Dobinson etc etc but are these systems that much better and worth it or are you just paying for the brand name and national support and warranty? Add a few hundred more and you can get a Bistein/King combo this will give you a "performance suspension" this may or not be to an individual's liking in regards to comfort but the on road handing will be very responsive. If you are travelling very heavy and for extended periods on badly corrugated roads then if you add a few hundred more and you can upgrade shockers and struts to either Koni or Dobinson MT. Add a few hundred more and you can get Dobinson MRR or Drummond RR.

Regardless of which system you choose the best upgrade you can do is to replace the factory rubber spring assist cones with Peddars 5899, at $125 a pair these protect your rear coils and prevent harsh bottoming out of the rear coils not matter what coils you have fitted and are more reliable than airbags.

With your requirement to run almost empty and then loaded up and towing means you really need progressive rate rear coils.

There is no perfect one size fits all suspension upgrade and what I like and expect may well be different from the next person. You will find polarised opinions both for and against all brand. If you can drive other people's Challengers then this will give you an idea of what you like or dislike.

From my experience most suppliers tend to recommend front coils that are too high and too firm and rear coils that are too low and too soft. Struts and shockers that are too hard on compression and too soft on rebound. Make it very clear what ride heights you are prepared to accept, the level of comfort vs handling and the weight carrying capacity of the rear. Ask if there are any charges for changing the coils over if you are unhappy with the results and how many changes they will do for the included price.

OJ.
Hi all and thanks for the feedback.As always OJ to the rescue.its guys like you and a few other regulars who are invaluable to this forum and what the rest of get out of it.Thankyou.
Right so I finally had the time to get to my local Oztec supplier for an asssessment and quote for the PC.
For the Oztec front struts part number 54101,Kings front coils p/nKCFR-55H,rear shock p/n60090, and rear spring KCRS-23 supplied and fitted I was quoted $1510 incl gst
From your earlier feedback OJ this is in the ballpark.
I need this car to handle well on road in a variety of situations and loads but also be supple enough to do its thing when crawling in steep country.
If I'm not happy they will swap out the springs at their cost for a different spring rate.
Any feedback/thoughts are appreciated.
__________________
2014 Ironbark Auto PC. TJM Bullbar and 9500 lb winch with rope,Safari snorkel,ARB bashplates,factory rear locker,BFG KO2 all terrains,custom rear storage and false floor,second row Engel 40 lt fridge mount,tint,Rasslar rock sliders,100 amp dual battery with 40 amp dcdc charger,45 cent EGR resistor mod,MM tow bar,GME 40 channel uhf with RFI antenna,I drive throttle controller,hard wired 180 lt per minute compressor,kings 2.5x3mt awning,Xray spots,OztecKings combo.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-08-18
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 6,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeachallenge View Post
Hi all and thanks for the feedback.As always OJ to the rescue.its guys like you and a few other regulars who are invaluable to this forum and what the rest of get out of it.Thankyou.
Right so I finally had the time to get to my local Oztec supplier for an asssessment and quote for the PC.
For the Oztec front struts part number 54101,Kings front coils p/nKCFR-55H,rear shock p/n60090, and rear spring KCRS-23 supplied and fitted I was quoted $1510 incl gst
From your earlier feedback OJ this is in the ballpark.
I need this car to handle well on road in a variety of situations and loads but also be supple enough to do its thing when crawling in steep country.
If I'm not happy they will swap out the springs at their cost for a different spring rate.
Any feedback/thoughts are appreciated.

Just looking at the spring part numbers I suspect that the fronts could be too hard and high and the rear too soft and low for the weight of your fitted accessories.

Front coils options;
KCFR-55H is a mid range coil that with 1202kg front axle load give about EBH 570mm, which is the maximum EBH you should be looking at to maintain legal wheel travel. At 1270kg (1260kg is max axle limit) for a EBH560mm.
KCFR-55 is a slightly lower coil that has the same spring rate as the 55H so 1136kg for EBH570mm and 1202kg for EBH560mm.

Rear coil options;
KCRS-23 is the lightest coil and for a rear axle weight of 780kg you could expect a EBH of 580mm and at 963kg EBH550mm.
KCRR-23 is the same spring rate but 15mm higher in free length so for a rear axle weight of 907kg you can expect a EBH of 580mm and at 1089kg EBH550mm and at 963kg EBH550mm.
KCRR-23HD is the same free length as the KCRR23 but a higher spring rate so for a rear axle weight of 1045kg you can expect a EBH of 580mm and at 1265kg EBH550mm.

Best if you can get to a weighbridge and measure your front and rear axle weights with full fuel and just the driver. This will give you a better idea of what coil to choose, also estimate the extra front seat, rear seat, rear cargo area and towball loads. This way you can see what your daily ride heights (EBH) and loaded ride heights are likely to be.

From my experience most resellers of suspensions go too high and hard on the front and too low and soft at the rear, then try to sell you airbags to fix the rear suspension.

Whichever coils you select, do yourself a big favour and fit Peddars 5899 rear cone assist springs whilst the rear coils are out, these protect the rear suspension from bottoming out when fully loaded and/or towing when you get deep coil compression. Dozens of Challenger and Pajero Sport owners have fitted these and I have not had a single negative feedback, only glowing reports.

All the above axle weights and EBH's are based on Manufacturers spring data and these can vary by 5% to 10% so there is still a degree of hit and miss with coil selection. All I can do is calculate the relative difference between coils and offer a comparison.

OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 25-08-18
ilikeachallenge ilikeachallenge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: victoria
Posts: 63
Default

Thanks OJ How do you measure the front and rear axle loads individually on a weigh bridge and get an accurate outcome?There are a few public weigh bridges locally but they are all a full bridge that you drive the vehicle onto and get an overall weight.
Interested in your feedback re the method the local supplier used to calculate rear axle load.They lifted the rear of the PC with their forklift until the rear was off the ground and then lowered it until the tyres touched the ground and then checked the scales on the fork to get an unsprung weight of the rear.Your thoughts?For the front they just looked at what I have fitted and went with what the Oztec parts book recommend.I hate having to do things twice and don't want to balls this up.
__________________
2014 Ironbark Auto PC. TJM Bullbar and 9500 lb winch with rope,Safari snorkel,ARB bashplates,factory rear locker,BFG KO2 all terrains,custom rear storage and false floor,second row Engel 40 lt fridge mount,tint,Rasslar rock sliders,100 amp dual battery with 40 amp dcdc charger,45 cent EGR resistor mod,MM tow bar,GME 40 channel uhf with RFI antenna,I drive throttle controller,hard wired 180 lt per minute compressor,kings 2.5x3mt awning,Xray spots,OztecKings combo.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Suspension dave60 PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 24 07-04-16 11:42 AM
New suspension from Ultimate Suspension AndrewF PB -PC Challenger 2009 - 2014 82 13-10-15 05:15 PM
Oztec Suspension Peterng Where the rubber hits the road. 2 17-10-14 01:10 AM
Suspension wrfreak Generation 3 Pajero 3 01-07-12 06:35 PM
Suspension, where to from here PajeroHero Generation 4-1 Pajero 2 27-06-12 07:43 PM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 05:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.