Munji EGR Cable Experiences

[old Jack]

Using a scangauge you can show that the “commanded” EGR goes to zero when you switch the resistor into circuit.

So have you noticed a reduction in turbo boost pressures since fitting a resistor EGR off mod?
What happens to your boost pressures when you switch the EGR back into the engine control circuit?

OJ.

[Dentrecasteaux]

Haven’t noticed a change in drivability. But clearly hard data would be more convincing. Might have to get SavvyCAN out again when I can find some time and space.

[Dicko1]

Surely you would expect that Munji has actually tested the unit before putting it on the market? If I had any doubts I,d simply ring them and ask...

[old Jack]

Surely you would expect that Munji has actually tested the unit before putting it on the market? If I had any doubts I,d simply ring them and ask...

So the conversation goes like this;

Sure we tested it.
The plug was the same so we plugged it in.
We connected an OBD2 reader to check that the EGR was closed.
Product fit for sale.

Highly unlikely they checked that it effected anything else.
The PS has been out for 4 years so why hasn't this conversation happened earlier?
It took all of 10 minutes searching and reading the online manual to find out how the EGR operated.

OJ

[ron.dunn]

The PS has been out for 4 years so why hasn't this conversation happened earlier?

That's why I started the thread

I think the issue is that most 4WD accessories are driven by orthodoxies and confirmation bias. "Falken tyres are the best" ... "Let's all switch to BFGoodrich", for example. And many people don't have the background or experience to conduct A-B tests to validate a choice.

This forum seems to do a better job of analysing (and debunking?).

[woffleon]

Just to clarify ......EGR (munji cable aka egr delete cable) is a separate system to CCV (crankcase ventilation aka a catch can) right?
I see them as totally separate systems..... apart from being under the bonnet.

Catch can to collect oil from vapor in the crankcase via the rocker cover. EGR feeds exhaust into inlet to reburn any fuel in that may exist in exhaust.

If "off road" performance is nesarsary a blanking plate fitted over the EGR inlet will do this but the ECU will read the pressure difference and register a fault. An 8mm dia hole in the plate will equalise the pressure but let some exhaust through to appease the ecu . Delete Cable will improve driveability even more and has the ability to be removed when your back on the road.

Very hard to measure driveability but fuel economy is improved = efficiency = performance

My 4 cylinder diesel 3L tractor is only rated at 55hp 75n/m but it will go flat stick all day and as long as I can keep fuel in it........its all about duty cycle. Dragster engines are stuffed after 2 races. I'm hoping the PS is somewhere in the middle

[nj swb]

Just to clarify ......EGR (munji cable aka egr delete cable) is a separate system to CCV (crankcase ventilation aka a catch can) right?
I see them as totally separate systems..... apart from being under the bonnet.

Separate, but they combine to create that horrible black tar that slowly strangles the intake. The CCV brings the oil fumes, the EGR brings soot, they combine.

Catch can to collect oil from vapor in the crankcase via the rocker cover. EGR feeds exhaust into inlet to reburn any fuel in that may exist in exhaust.

Yes, and no. Catch can correct, but EGR is about reducing NOx emissions.

At light load with lots of available oxygen the fuel burns very cleanly at high temperatures. At high temperatures, the nitrogen in the air also burns, creating NOx, which is considered responsible for all sorts of horrible things - think smog, and breathing difficulties (with or without visible smog) and probably all sorts of other things of which we've never heard.

So EGR recycles exhaust gas back into the intake to displace oxygen, so the fuel can't burn as efficiently, which keeps the combustion temperatures down and reduces the amount of NOx.

Of course, in a diesel, reduced combustion efficiency means more particulates. So the EGR recycles more soot into the intake, and the DPF was introduced to introduce more stress into our lives. And EGR means the vehicle burns more fuel, creating more CO2, but at least we can all breathe easier before global warming kills us all.

If "off road" performance is nesarsary a blanking plate fitted over the EGR inlet will do this but the ECU will read the pressure difference and register a fault.

I believe some Pajero ECUs were sensitive to this - the MAF registered too much flow to accompany a certain EGR percentage, and would flag an error. I believe later Pajeros are less sensitive to this, but I don't know how this affects Pajero Sport.

An 8mm dia hole in the plate will equalise the pressure but let some exhaust through to appease the ecu .

In Pajeros, as EGR opens the throttle plate is closed to increase vacuum in the manifold, and help to draw in the exhaust gas. I believe that drilling a hole in the throttle plate was one solution to help appease the ECU and avoid error codes. Drilling a hole in a blanking plate may also help to avoid EGR error codes, but I don't know if this is required by and/or helps a Pajero Sport

Delete Cable will improve driveability even more and has the ability to be removed when your back on the road.

Correct. On vehicles on which they work, the "delete cable" fools the ECU into thinking that the intake air is so cold that it doesn't operate the EGR. The ECU never asks the EGR to operate = end of story.

Very hard to measure driveability but fuel economy is improved = efficiency = performance

Yep!

My 4 cylinder diesel 3L tractor is only rated at 55hp 75n/m but it will go flat stick all day and as long as I can keep fuel in it........its all about duty cycle. Dragster engines are stuffed after 2 races. I'm hoping the PS is somewhere in the middle

At those figures, I hope they didn't waste money bolting a turbo on the tractor!

[woffleon]

50 years since man landed on the moon so I've been expecting my electric hover conversion by now and this would have solved all this.

Thanks nj swb for even more clarity.

[Purdy]

Great information. So to get total protection you would put on a catch can as well as a resistor modification as they both stop different issues in regards to gunk.
Can someone with a scan gauge and a resistor mod confirm that the EGR valve remains closed at all times with the resistor mod in a Pajero Sport please.

[old Jack]

A bit more research has revealed the EGR control system in the 4N1 CRD Pajero Sport engine is more complicated than the 4M41 3.2l CRD Pajero or the 4D56 CRD 2.5l Challenger/Triton engines.

The 4N Engine ECU looks at 3 different variable conditions when controlling the when and the amount the EGR valve opens.
Engine Coolant must be over 80C.
Air Inlet temperature must be 10C or greater.
Engine RPM over 2500 rpm.

What I cannot determine is, if all 3 conditions need to be detected before the EGR operation or2 of the 3 or even 1 of the 3 of the above conditions.
You should be able to see the operation of the EGR on a Scangauge or Ultragauge under each of the above conditions both individually and combined.

OJ.

Further reading has confirmed that the 3 input conditions of, engine coolant over 80C, engine rpm over 2500rpm and #2 Air inlet temperature must be over 10C are required for the EGR cooler bypass system to work.

Earlier model Pajero, Challengers and Tritons did not have an EGR cooler bypass so this is a new system to what we are all use to. It is only engines that are configured to Euro 5 emission standards and have a DPF that have a EGR cooler bypass. The only reason I can see for have an EGR cooler bypass is in low ambient temperature and low rpm situations where you do not want to cool the exhaust gases that are already at a lower temperature.
What is still unclear is if you need only 1, 2 or all 3 of the inputs conditions for the EGR cooler bypass system to function.
What is also unclear is is the EGR Bypass ON or OFF or is it a variable bleed?

Only further testing will answer these questions.

This could also be the situation with the later NX Pajero that have the Euro 5/DPF engine.

Reports from the Pajero Sport Facebbook page are that people have noticed a reduction in turbo boost pressure when an electronic EGR OFF is fitted. Once again only further testing on these Euro 5 engines will answer these questions.

OJ.

[Jasonmc73]

[QUOTE=old Jack;613689]Further reading has confirmed that the 3 input conditions of, engine coolant over 80C, engine rpm over 2500rpm and #2 Air inlet temperature must be over 10C are required for the EGR cooler bypass system to work.

Earlier model Pajero, Challengers and Tritons did not have an EGR cooler bypass so this is a new system to what we are all use to. It is only engines that are configured to Euro 5 emission standards and have a DPF that have a EGR cooler bypass. The only reason I can see for have an EGR cooler bypass is in low ambient temperature and low rpm situations where you do not want to cool the exhaust gases that are already at a lower temperature.
What is still unclear is if you need only 1, 2 or all 3 of the inputs conditions for the EGR cooler bypass system to function.
What is also unclear is is the EGR Bypass ON or OFF or is it a variable bleed?

Only further testing will answer these questions.

This could also be the situation with the later NX Pajero that have the Euro 5/DPF engine.

Reports from the Pajero Sport Facebbook page are that people have noticed a reduction in turbo boost pressure when an electronic EGR OFF is fitted. Once again only further testing on these Euro 5 engines will answer these questions.




Does that mean maybe the EGR functions as it always did therebouts & bypasses the Cooler unless all the above are met & then an EGR cooler that has been added to this complicated monster then comes into play to give cooler EGR gases???

[old Jack]

[QUOTE=Jasonmc73;613693]

Further reading has confirmed that the 3 input conditions of, engine coolant over 80C, engine rpm over 2500rpm and #2 Air inlet temperature must be over 10C are required for the EGR cooler bypass system to work.

Earlier model Pajero, Challengers and Tritons did not have an EGR cooler bypass so this is a new system to what we are all use to. It is only engines that are configured to Euro 5 emission standards and have a DPF that have a EGR cooler bypass. The only reason I can see for have an EGR cooler bypass is in low ambient temperature and low rpm situations where you do not want to cool the exhaust gases that are already at a lower temperature.
What is still unclear is if you need only 1, 2 or all 3 of the inputs conditions for the EGR cooler bypass system to function.
What is also unclear is is the EGR Bypass ON or OFF or is it a variable bleed?

Only further testing will answer these questions.

This could also be the situation with the later NX Pajero that have the Euro 5/DPF engine.

Reports from the Pajero Sport Facebbook page are that people have noticed a reduction in turbo boost pressure when an electronic EGR OFF is fitted. Once again only further testing on these Euro 5 engines will answer these questions.




Does that mean maybe the EGR functions as it always did therebouts & bypasses the Cooler unless all the above are met & then an EGR cooler that has been added to this complicated monster then comes into play to give cooler EGR gases???

There has always been a EGR cooler fitted, what is new is the EGR Cooler BYPASS system, this seems to be required for operations in colder conditions and low rpm conditions, if I understand correctly.

So I do not have the answer to this question.

We need a PS and a late NX fitted with a switchable EGR delete and a good OBD2 gauge to do the testing.

OJ.

[Ozkiwi]

I have a question to you all..

Why buy a car and use it with an illegal modification that if caught would cost you $25,000 when you could all buy a car that doesn't have this issue? Or buy a car better suited to your needs.

I own a 2018 PS Exceed and have a Provent 200 Crankcase Ventilation system and I have done 10,000klms since I fitted it. I have drained 30 - 50mls of diluted oil/water/crud each month that would have gone through the engine and clogged up the intake system. I have removed the intercooler to check on how dirty it is and it's as clean as it was from new.

I can't see the need to block off/disable an environmental improvement device for any reason other than reading all the crap online and believing it.

I love my car, the way it drives, the way it handles all sorts of offroad difficulties and I'm still running the factory highway tyres.

My Car: 2018 Pajero Sport Exceed, Safari Snorkel, Provent 200, Dobinsons front coils and 4x monotube shocks, 6mm alloy BushSkinz bashplates, H/R Towbar, Redarc TowPro Elite, OL Deluxe Exceed Bullbar, Domin8tor 12,000lb winch & Kings Awning & Tent.

[Kingbrown]

I can't see the need to block off/disable an environmental improvement device for any reason other than reading all the crap online and believing it.

One could ask the same question of a manufactruer that incorporates a 'feature' (eg software) that gets if over the line to meet environmental and performance requirements but reverts to a lesser standard after the cash has been handed over and the honeymoon is but a memory.

The pain comes for the owner and the environment in the longer term when the vehicle's systems no longer perform as they should and cost the owner time and $'s to remedy.

[Ian H]

I can't see the need to block off/disable an environmental improvement device for any reason other than reading all the crap online and believing it.

How do you explain all the pics of crudded up manifolds after 100k ?