Pajero on Portals

[karllovesmercedes]

Righto

I thought I'd put up a thread of the project I'm working on at the moment. That is to have portal axles designed to fit Gen 4 (or 3) Pajeros. Ever since I read this thread by Oliworker on Expedition Portal I've been addicted to the idea of building a set of these to fit a Pajero. http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...uck-on-portals

Many of the photos on this thread are taken from Oilworker's own build thread (Hope you don't mind!) All photo credit to him - Rallyewerk

The company Oilworker purchased portals from are called Tibus Offroad Engineering and have done a whole tonne of amazing builds on Mercedes G-Wagen, Landrover Defenders, 80 Series and 76 Series Landcruiser....but not yet a Pajero

Doing some research on other companies, Tibus stood out as having the most down to earth, reliable and friendly customer service. They have products not only in Germany where they are based, but in Dubai, UAE and supply Wolf Trucks' Portal Axles. The company is run by two brothers, Wolfgang Tibus and Daniel Tibus who make superb products.

But first, an intro 101 to portals!

What are Portals?
Portal hubs/axles are essentially a miniature gearbox that fit where your stock wheel hubs sit. This transfers the drive down through a set of gears to a point that is lower by approximately 4" (100mm)




What are the benefits?

Differential clearance
Lift under the sills as well as under the differentials is what reduces getting bogged/bellied-out in deep ruts. You can get the same effect with larger tyres too however this places a lot more load on the CVs. You would also need at least 37s with a 2 inch lift to get the same diff clearance as a portal'd Pajero on 33s with NO suspension lift (5 inch increase)

No suspension lift needed for 4" of lift
The portals I am looking into provide 4 inches of height increase at the hubs. Lifting the Gen 4's IFS suspension means reducing downtravel. This means on portals you can get full suspension travel/flex without limited down travel or constant wear on CVs from a suspension lift.

Easier fitting of larger diameter tyres
Pajero 4s have very limited suspension lift available, meaning 33s are a tight fit and 35s need either a subframe drop or guard cutting and flares. This is a complicated process and not everyone is a big fan of the massive arctic truck flares

Reduction gearing in the hub
The portal axles all feature a reduction done in the hub itself, on the ones I am look at that ratio is 1:1.16 which is more than enough to run 35s comfortably if you wanted

They look unbelievable!!!!!
Have a look at these trucks which all feature portal axles made by Tibus Engineering








Now onto the Pajero stuff!

I have been in contact with another member of the forum who lives in Germany who would like to work with me and design them - hopefully the portals can be designed to fit his truck as the prototype versions

I have also been in contact with Wolfgang from Tibus Engineering and he is keen on the idea, we simply need to establish whether the current solid axle hub design can be adapted to work on the Pajero with use of the steering knuckle on their currently, or whether we need to redesign the whole case to custom tailor it to the Pajero.

I will keep keep you all updated as it goes! If anyone wants to express your interest below on this thread that would be great, as the Tibus brothers are looking to whether these could go into a full production version as have currently the Defender and G-Wagen vehicles etc. More info and specifications are to come in a later post but for now if anyone has any questions - fire away!

Cheers, Karl

[TC.Barky]

Very interesting. The million dollar question though, can you get it engineered in Australia?

[karllovesmercedes]

can you get it engineered in Australia?

Ah yes that is the question I'll be looking into that this week and asking round.

I do know that having trolled every LTNZ document in NZ here all I could find that requires certification is for track increase over 25mm, new braking systems must be appropriately rated (easy), and changing a vehicles hubs which can only be from a vehicle or rating that is of a higher load capacity. With the hubs being rated to 3,500kg they are well in excess of this on a Pajero and track increase is very straightforward.

Given the regulations are stricter in Australia, I'll update with whatever information I can gather or what I hear back from the transport departments

[02-SR5]

You would have to Engineer the entire IFS front

The US Humvee is IFS/IRS, they have portals fitted.

[02-SR5]

Another thing to consider, the wheels will require a massive offset and hub pattern to fit.

So, if you are going to sell these as a kit, they will require 5 x rims to suit.

No point fitting portals if you can't get wheels to fit.

[4wd26]

I contacted Tibus/ Wolfgang in the past year regarding portals for Mitsubishi vehicles (specifically my triton) which would also fit the PB onward challengers

they stated they were not interested.....

BUT I sure as hell am, and will keep this thread bookmarked



put me down as an expression of interest

if I have to modify the front of the triton to fit these I can modify it to fit the pajero hubs

And the wheel offset is usually to minimize the track increase, so on a triton/ challenger using Pajero or ford ranger offset rims (+46 or over) will bring the track change back a bit more reasonable.

the rear is where the triton challenger will differ (live axle) so hopeful that other existing (landcruiser, landrover) hubs could be made fit.

I already have changed diff gearing and upgraded brakes (with certification) I can see this being engineerable, even if you had to go to the extent SVC, but I don't believe that would be require, SAS can be engineered even in QLD

[karllovesmercedes]

You would have to Engineer the entire IFS front

Another thing to consider, the wheels will require a massive offset and hub pattern to fit.

So, if you are going to sell these as a kit, they will require 5 x rims to suit.

No point fitting portals if you can't get wheels to fit.

You may be right on that. Portals lower the point of leverage of the hubs, so it is mainly the lower ball joint that takes more force than usual, the upper too. Other than that the front is a very simple system. What may need redesigning is the rear control (toe) arm and locating arms. That should be straightforward enough in design however.

I am confident that the wishbones themselves are up to the task, it's the ball joints that will wear much quicker and need a relook. I have narrowed the best option down to a "Ballistic" ball joint or similar from Euro 4x4 or XRF Chassis's version - both very heavy duty. At the moment the XRF-type version is the simplest and most user-friendly option. If it really is required, currently Benny - my German friend - is working on a set of redesigned wishbones with his local engineer and I also am looking at local NZ and Australian Manufacturers to design a set of 4 chromoly or reinforced steel wishbones if they are needed.

But firstly we'll need to design the mounting points and establish whether a simple bolt in heavy-duty ball joint will be all that is required or all-out extreme-duty rebuildable one with new arms is needed.

If there proves enough interest the Tibus brothers can produce a vehicle specific application for the Pajero with redesigned case and we can work to provide a kit that is bolt-on, wishbones etc. all included to get them mounted component wise


As for the wheels, the track increase will be negated the factory wheels which like 4WD26 said are about 45+ ET. Alternately you can fit a set of similar aftermarket wheels (whether beadlocked or normal) with a heavier positive offset too. You will need flares but there are plenty of options in this department - it won't be anything like an Arctic truck haha. There are some Gen 4 trucks with Mitsubishi factory option flares or conveyor belt if you don't mind the looks. Otherwise there is always the option for you to fit fibreglass ones if looks are a concern

I sure as hell am, and will keep this thread bookmarked, put me down as an expression of interest

if I have to modify the front of the triton to fit these I can modify it to fit the pajero hubs...
...the rear is where the triton challenger will differ (live axle) so hopeful that other existing (landcruiser, landrover) hubs could be made fit.

I already have changed diff gearing and upgraded brakes (with certification) I can see this being engineerable, even if you had to go to the extent SVC, but I don't believe that would be require, SAS can be engineered even in QLD

That's excellent! Duly noted and thanks for your interest!

At the moment the cheaper option would be to create an adapter that replaces the swivel hub etc and bolts on to those current points and instead features mounting tabs for the upper and lower wishbones and steering knuckle etc. That's what we are looking at currently. If this is what is done, there is always the option for you to machine your own adapter to suit a Triton/Challenger - provided the mounting points line up that could very-well be feasible. You might also need a redesigned 1st drive gear (the one at the top that the factory CV enters) to fit the Challenger CV splines but I'm sure that can be done by a professional machinist if you are designing an adapter at the same time. It would need precise measurements and design which is likely why Tibus was hesitant because he would need a vehicle there to work on and take measurements ideally

The ultimate in strength for the design would be a redesigned rear case specific to the Pajero mounts, this would be more expensive option but provide the strongest link. It would be more difficult to do this than an adapter but there is quite a large market out there for Pajeros so whether an adapter or new case is made depends on the demand and interest in this!

[02-SR5]

s for the wheels, the track increase will be negated the factory wheels which like 4WD26 said are about 45+ ET. Alternately you can fit a set of similar aftermarket wheels (whether beadlocked or normal) with a heavier positive offset too. You will need flares but there are plenty of options in this department - it won't be anything like an Arctic truck haha. There are some Gen 4 trucks with Mitsubishi factory option flares or conveyor belt if you don't mind the looks. Otherwise there is always the option for you to fit fibreglass ones if looks are a concern.


If the proposed Portals will accept the factory wheel (same hub size and stud patter), then you may be onto something.

But if the buyer has to find a specific wheel to suit, he may loose interest real quick.

We have a company that do the portal hub conversion for live axle Patrols. They do a complete drive in/out kit, with wheels supplied as part of the kit. That's part of the attraction. But is over $20k for the kit.

[karllovesmercedes]

Yup you're right, we'll be trying to keep the factory brake hub and PCD if possible, but this may depend on whether it works with Tibus' design. I am very much hoping they can, if not I believe it is likely to be a G-Wagen's brakes (or whichever fits really), there are other factory wheels in 5 stud with heavy offsets as well - aftermarket too, so there should be plenty of options available to buyers.

I don't want to guess too much at the moment as we still need to finalise a design. But you can be sure we will try our best to minimise the track increase and keep as many easy wheel options available as possible.

Is that company Mark's Adapters? I've read about his hubs and they look well made, but progress seemed quite slow with developing for other trucks, does he still have them in production? Last time I checked his site it just stated 'out of stock'?

I will update this thread with a price once Benny visits Wolfgang with his truck, they can then establish exactly what needs doing with accurate measurements and narrow down the price

[KiwiNTPajero]

this is like the unimog has?Surely will be HELLA expensive!

[draganlada]

this is like the unimog has?Surely will be HELLA expensive!
And most probably on road it will handle just like one so who ever wants his pajero to handle like Unimog best and easiest way is just trade in your pajero for an Unimog

[fisherman4life]

any update on the pajero portals? pretty keen to get a set if there put into production

cheers Nik

[fisherman4life]

hey there everyone,
any news on the pajero portals?

[The Beast]

Hi Folks,
Any update on the Portals project for Pajero.
Definitively interested over here.
Thanks,
Marc

[jaffles]

I see the original poster didn't consider the down sides. Don't want to be wet fish but a bloke in land rover land put some on his defender. Cost him and oil worker far more than they ever expected. Car was plagued with issues neither one could fix. After the hole doubled in size I think both parties decided to walk away.

Looks can be skin deep unfortunately.