NL to hard

[Fuzz260z]

Hey there all.

My beloved NH finally bit the dust, Id had it 8 years and it had done 450 000km. Great car. Really loved that car.
Anyways I found a nice NL 3.5 SOHC with 180 000km on the clock and promptly purchased it.
Its a great rig, very tidy and much more punchy then the 3.0 NH motor. I certainly appreciate a bit more get up an go.
Ive had it only a few days and am not happy with the harshness of the ride. The soft almost nautical nature of my NH ride was what enamoured me to the car in the first place. So comfy on and off the road even in terribly rutted rock hard dirt roads, my old NH seemed to float over whatever surface it happened to be driving on.

Now I only ever replaced the front shocks (twice) and the rear shocks and rear springs (twice) in the 250 000 km I put on the NH. I never replaced any bushings and never touched the torsion bars.

I understand the chassis of the NH and the NL are identical, so there is no reason I could not achieve the same ride from my newer NL.
I also still have the NH.

First thing I plan to do is change the wheels and tyres from the NH to the NL.
(the ride in the NH was still soft even with 50+ psi so it cant be tyre pressure alone)
Then ill swap over the front shocks, rear shocks and rear coils from the NH (The NH ones only have 25 00km on them).
This should go some of the way to produce the desired ride.

What im not sure about is the torsion bars..
How much do torsion bars affect ride 'stiffness' ? and how might I adjust to find the ride I prefer.
Is it possible to check if my NL has some sort of heavy duty torsion bars? (i know the first owner used to tow with the NL so maybe he stiffened up the suspension for loads?

Undoubtably the NL is much better around corners, it has very little body roll compared to my old NH. but its just too harsh. Id happily take it easy around corners for the sake of a nice soft ride ( I drive slow anyway).

Thanks in advance for any input!

[erad]

A torsion bar is simply a coil spring straightened out (or rather a coil spring is a straight torsion bar coiled up). As you deflect the torsion bar, it twists , causing tension in the steel. A simple way to check if the NL has heavy duty bars is to measure the diameter of the bar material. The harshness of the ride comes from the shock absorbers (also called dampers). An easy way to improve the ride of your NL would be to swap the dampers from the NH.

For what it is worth, I went from a Range Rover to a NL Pajero, and I forgot to order springs when I bought the NL. That's how it seemed anyway. With a Rangie, you tend to get gravel rash on your elbows as you go round corners, but the ride quality was soooo good. I was always critical of the ride quality of the NL. I now have a NW Pajero, and when new, the ride seemed close to the Rangie quality, but of late, I think it has stiffened up somewhat. Tyre pressures don't seem to help either. I am fussy.

[nj swb]

I'm with erad - first step should be to swap the dampers, as you're already planning to do. New dampers in my NJ made a huge difference to ride quality over the shopping centre speed humps.

The other potential problem is ride height. If somebody has wound up the NL torsion bars too far there may not be enough droop travel left, so wheels may not be able to drop into holes, or rebound properly after hitting a bump. While you're replacing the front shocks, find the upper (droop) and lower (bump) stops, and confirm that (at normal ride height) there is clearance to both.

Ex factory, the clearances are about equal. If the torsion bars have been wound up, I suggest a minimum droop clearance of half the bump clearance - using factory rubber stops. That is, sitting on flat ground, the gap to the smaller upper stops should be at least half the distance to the larger bottom stop.

[Fuzz260z]

Thanks guys.

Ill swap out the shocks and then adjust the torsion bars into spec and see how that goes.


After a quick measure looks like the front of the NL is 4cm higher then the NH. While the back of the NL is 1cm lower then the back of the NH (measured from guard to bottom of rim).
Perhaps the torsion bars sag over time? Although ive read some people say they get harder?

thanks again

[nj swb]

Thanks guys.

Ill swap out the shocks and then adjust the torsion bars into spec and see how that goes.


After a quick measure looks like the front of the NL is 4cm higher then the NH. While the back of the NL is 1cm lower then the back of the NH (measured from guard to bottom of rim).
Perhaps the torsion bars sag over time? Although ive read some people say they get harder?

thanks again

I have a recollection that NH to NJ saw a minor tweak of the design of the front suspension, so NJ onwards sit a little higher at the front. Then your NL has the "factory body lift" that raised the body about 30mm on the chassis - so that's also contributing to the extra height measured at the guard. Note that if you're measuring to bottom of rim, rim size enters the equation - are both vehicles on the same size rim?

Torsion bars (like any spring) definitely sag over time, but they're relatively easy to "wind back up" - to a point. They don't get harder. There is a common internet myth that winding up the bars makes them stiffer, but that's incorrect - when force vectors are analysed, there's marginally less tension in the bar once the vehicle is raised above factory height. Generally, when people report worse ride it's because they are wound up too far, and have run out of droop travel.

[stumagoo]

Hub to guard measurements are different on nl blister models as the guard edge is snapped differently. Also some time in the NJ model the torsion bars were revised and changed. They are longer and a little thicker on newer models. Finally if someone has cranked Tue torsion bars up and it's got load against the bump stops it will result in a harsh ride.

[Fuzz260z]

I have a recollection that NH to NJ saw a minor tweak of the design of the front suspension, so NJ onwards sit a little higher at the front. Then your NL has the "factory body lift" that raised the body about 30mm on the chassis - so that's also contributing to the extra height measured at the guard. Note that if you're measuring to bottom of rim, rim size enters the equation - are both vehicles on the same size rim?

Torsion bars (like any spring) definitely sag over time, but they're relatively easy to "wind back up" - to a point. They don't get harder. There is a common internet myth that winding up the bars makes them stiffer, but that's incorrect - when force vectors are analysed, there's marginally less tension in the bar once the vehicle is raised above factory height. Generally, when people report worse ride it's because they are wound up too far, and have run out of droop travel.

Very interesting. and ideas what was tweaked to raise the front? Also what is the 'factory body lift' you speak of?

The rims are both stock 15 or 16 can't remember.

[Fuzz260z]

Hub to guard measurements are different on nl blister models as the guard edge is snapped differently. Also some time in the NJ model the torsion bars were revised and changed. They are longer and a little thicker on newer models. Finally if someone has cranked Tue torsion bars up and it's got load against the bump stops it will result in a harsh ride.

Thanks, good info.
What do you mean 'if its got load up against the bump stop'? from what I can tell I still have a an inch or more on both bump stops (the ones on the upper and lower control arms, are they the right ones?)

Ill have to get out the callipers to see if the NL torsion Bars are thicker.

In any case, if I wind down the torsion bars will it make my ride softer?

thanks again everyone

[erad]

"In any case, if I wind down the torsion bars will it make my ride softer? "

Sadly, no. The spring rate is determined by the diameter of the torsion bars, the length and the material used in making them. If you want softer ride, you need a longer torsion bar (not possible without massive changes), or a thinner diameter bar. There isn't much you can do to change it.

[Fuzz260z]

bummer!!!
And as Stumagoo said I cant put my NH torsion bars in the NL as they are too long?
Maybe I should have stuck with the NH, but they are hard to find!

[Just Cruzin]

bummer!!!
And as Stumagoo said I cant put my NH torsion bars in the NL as they are too long?
Maybe I should have stuck with the NH, but they are hard to find!

Also your 15 inch wheels will not fit on an NL GLS or Exceed because of the bigger disc brakes.

[Fuzz260z]

ahh jeeze, the hits just keep coming...

[stumagoo]

15's can indeed go on a NL if they are the right offset and type I ran them for some time on 8" ROH trax2 sunnies with -22 offset

Only changed to 16" because all the tire shops locally pretty much stopped stocking 15" tires in over 31" I was after 35's so I got a set of 16's but now a year and a half later they have decided that they will only stock 35's in 17"

[erad]

My NL was the Escape model. It was the last of the Gen 2 models made for Australia and they went through their parts bins and put in extra goodies for a bargain basement price. It had 15" alloy wheels. Not sure about the brakes though - I never had to replace the discs or pads so I cannot comment on sizes etc.

[damo03]

NL escape had 15" wheels and smaller discs and a shorter calliper holder and smaller dust cover

On my escape I put 16" GLS rims on and put the GLS discs and calliper holders on and larger dust cover. Callipers are the same.

If you are going backwards from 16 to 15 you may need to put the smaller gear on or the brakes might hit the rim. This is straight forward, you just need to find a wrecker with a escape or GL NL Pajero.

You should be able to get it comfy. I have found my escape very comfy and soft. Maybe with new shocks and springs.