Engineers Certificate needed for custom bar??

[Catchin Jack]

Hopefully there's a switched on engineer on here to answer this haha

Got a Gen3 pajero and have been looking at making a custom bullbar BUT due to airbag sensors apparently it cannot be done.
I can't see why it can't be done as you are not changing or modifying the body itself, you're using standard mount areas, you are not strengthening the body in any way, you are just bolting on an "accessory". If you were to impact the crumple zones would still crumple and airbags would deploy.
I could understand if you were modifying the body and mounts etc that it wouldn't be allowed but all I want to do is bolt on to original mounting points like every other bullbar does as in pictures below
Anyone able to shed some light on this subject and clarify if it is possible or is a grey area or is just not permitted.





Thanks in advance
Leo

[old Jack]

Smartbar

Leo,

I agree with you, if you are adding a structure to the front of the car and not reinforcing the cars structure then it is unlikely to alter the performance of the crush can structure or the deployment of the airbags. My view is an extra impact absorbing structure is beneficial. I too looked at designing and making my own alloy winch bar for my 2011 PB Challenger as I had done this several times on older 4wds but my issues were refusal of comprehensive insurance and vehicle registration & 3rd party personal insurance, in SA. Every time I spoke to those that make the decisions, they lacked the knowledge to make an informed decision, and always defaulted to the "Engineers Certification & Tests".

Most Bullbar manufacturers use computer simulations when designing their bars and a few test them on test dollys but none (to my knowledge) actually test on vehicles. I am told the Engineers test and certifications can cost between $50 and $100k!

Bullbar manufacturers have loosely complied with the Australian Design Guidelines and changed the mounts to provide a "crush can", the real design challenge is when the bar does not have a separate winch mount as the bar and the mounts must take winching loads at actue angles but still crush rearwards with severe frontal impact.

I ended up fitting a Smartbar, after 30 years of steel and alloy bullbar experiences. It offers more occupant protection than the steel or alloy options and I am more concerned about myself and my passengers than I am about the car, my tough image or what other people say. Is it perfect ? NO but in my opinion it is better than a steel, alloy or no bar at all.

cheers, old Jack.

[MSF]

The problem is - how will that new "accessory" distribute the load to the mounts. on a dead straight on crash with a flat wall, there may be no difference, but on a slight angle or hitting half an object - the load will be a hell of a lot different.

[old Jack]

Yes BUT-

Yes the loads will be different but much the same way that if you hit a roo, tree or a concrete wall the offset forces or full frontal forces will all be vastly different and cause the car structure to crush differently. The impact sensors, yaw rate sensors, brake pressure sensors, steering wheel position sensor and wheel speed sensors will send information to the ASTC and Airbag ECU's they will determine which and when to fire airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners, apply extra brake force and to which wheels and how much. All this happens in a millisecond or two, aren't modern electronics wonderful (when they work), there is some very clever science and math behind all this technology.

As far as the bullbar certification goes I think it is one of the best marketing moves/myths supported by the aftermarket industry. It has stopped the cowboy fabricators out there that made dangerous bullbars so it has had some benefit to road safety.

cheers,old Jack.

[scruffy]

When I got my car RWC for rego, I asked the mechanic about the differences between airbag/non airbag bullbars. Iwas told that a non airbeg bar would be ok to put on my airbag car as it wouldnt make any difference to the deployment of the airbags. So, apperantly, it all depends on where the sensors are fitted to the car as to wheather or not you can. Bob

[Catchin Jack]

I've been trying to get answers and confirmation but nobody seems to be able to give a 100% answer to it. Reason i've been looking into it is that i'm looking at having a "xrox style" bar built and fitted to my NM Pajero as a beta test as such.
There's gotta be a way to do it even though it has damn airbags.


Cheers
Leo