Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum

Go Back   Pajero 4WD Club of Victoria Public Forum > General Information > Techniques

Techniques Winching - Recoveries - Chainsaw Safety - Proper aproach to 4wding etc

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Pajshomoneroguntero's Avatar
Pajshomoneroguntero Pajshomoneroguntero is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,142
Default Ground Anchors

I'd describe myself as a solo traveller, ie Wifey and two toddlers.

The paj has a winch however we all know it is as useful as flyscreen on a submarine without a suitable anchor point. So looking for thoughts on the technique of winching off a ground anchor.

An online search brings up the usual "boat anchor" like https://www.sherpa4x4.com.au/collect...d-winch-anchor
Con is its weight at 16kg. Price, meh but wouldn't want to be any dearer at listed AUD$269.

There is also a product called the Lan-cor vis http://www.lan-cor.com/
Weighs in at 9kg but price IMO is horrendous at NZ$465.22 plus P&H.

Then I came across the Deadman Offroad, https://www.deadmanoffroad.com/
Versatile as it can anchor not only to the sand but rock and tree as well.

Lightweight and small pack-down. There is a Ronny Dahl Youtube of him trying it as well as a vid on the website.
US$315 on special at the moment for the full kit which includes two soft shackles or you could just go for the Deadman by itself for US$189.95 and buy your own local soft shackles for less. Incidentally the Deadman can still be used with the conventional rated steel shackles Problem with all things Stateside is the killer shipping (plus GST now too ). Website also says its on backorder for another three weeks

My concern with the Lan-cor is encountering hard terrain. Whilst I think it would be fine in sand for the price I'd be after more surety of it being available in other terrains. But then again if the ground is too hard to drive the screw in what is the likelihood that you'd need it anyway?

So any real-life experiences out there with these or anything else?
__________________
NX GLS MY16 Auto: MM Towbar | Spare Lift Kit | Cooper ST MAXX 265/65R17 | SPVi Module mk3.1 | Autosafe Half Cargo Barrier | Torque Pro App | Donaldson 3um 2ndry Fuel Filter | Diff Breathers | GME4500 UHF | Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform | Roley's Rear Bash Plate | Bushskinz Underbody Protection | Airtec Snorkel | Onboard Compressor | Awning | ARB Deluxe Bar | Lightbar | Sherpa4x4 Winch | Bushskinz Sidesteps | Masten TPMS

Build Thread
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 5,686
Default

Unfortunately there is no one ground anchor that does all soil types and winching conditions.
they range from useless to fantastic, cheap to expensive, light to heavy so it really depends where you do most of your driving in difficult terrain.

When trees or rocks are not conveniently located in the direct line of pull then a winch extension strap between 2 anchor points and winch of the centre section of the strap.


In soft sand then burying your spare tyre and using this as an anchor point works, best buried about 30 degrees off vertical so the top of the wheel is away from the vehicle, the face of the wheel is facing the vehicle and the winch rope is attached to the centre hub of the wheel.


Winching can be a simple quick and easy way out of trouble if it is a forward straight line pull and you have just lost traction but when buried to the floor pan in sand or mud the extraction loads are huge and will stress your recovery gear to failure. Likewise if you are trying to winch over a rock ledge. Always try and make it easier on your winch and sometimes digging is your worse enemy, road building and jacking up individual wheels then back filling or placement of recovery tracks under the wheels is often a better option.

I have done most of my remote off road traveling as a solo vehicle and always had a power winch and on the few occasions I needed it I had to combine other techniques to assist the winch. Now days I just carry a long handle shovel, 2 sets of Maxtraxs, a mechanical screw jack, a scissor jack and long base boards, with these and a bit of time and common sense I can get myself out every situation that I have so far got myself into. However if the High Country or anywhere on the Great Dividing Range was my backyard then I would have a power winch.


OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT245/75/16, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Lockup Mate.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Onslow's Avatar
Onslow Onslow is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 545
Default

Do a search for Lan-cor on the forum. WA guys did some testing a while ago and were very impressed.
__________________
NW MY2014 VRX 3.2 Diesel Auto, Front Runner Slimline II Roof Rack, Sandgrabber Floor Mats, Safari Snorkel, Warn XP9.5S Winch, ARB Bull Bar, Bushskinz Underbody Protection, Lovells HD Springs, Bilstein Shocks, Firestone Airbags, Off Road Systems Rear Shelf, Boab 40Lt Water Tank, Cooper LT265/65x17 AT3 Tyres, Uniden 7760 UHF Radio, LRA 58LT Long Range Tank, Lightforce Genesis 50W HID Driving Lights, Redarc BCDC Dual Battery System, Taipan XP 3in Exhaust System, Recaro Seats.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Garc Garc is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 111
Default

Ronny Dahl (4 Wheeling in Australia You Tube channel) did a beach test of these some months ago. The sand bag/parachute thing was the best.
__________________
Gary

2008 NS DiD Exceed. MM factory alloy full bar, Autosafe cargo barrier, Roley's rear bash plate, Uniden 8080 UHF, Baintech powertop aux battery in cargo area (removable), Jaycar battery isolator, fire ext mounted in place of rear door handle, Redarc EBC, BushSkinz IC & sump. ARB Frontier replacement fuel tank, Pedders track rider suspension. Lockup Mate.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
sharkcaver's Avatar
sharkcaver sharkcaver is offline
"2000"+ Valued Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 5,808
Send a message via MSN to sharkcaver Send a message via Skype™ to sharkcaver
Default

Wow. I like that sand bag/parachute idea. Might have to look into this further. I reckon one could be made for the fraction of that price. 2 equaliser straps with a heavy duty pvc sewn in would do it easy. Due to both the weight and cost, I've been loathe to both carrying and purchasing a sand anchor. This idea fits the bill nicely. It can also be doubled as a damper blanket for snatching.

They even give you the sizing of the blanket: 1200 x 711.

That might not be in the spirit of the game, but it could be a game changer for me.
__________________
Gone to a new home ...MY04 NP GLS Man Di-D, Look after her..


MY16 NX GLX5, Dobinson's HD springs + MRR shocks + Firestone airbags, 17" Toyo Opats, XXX bar, Dominator winch + IB500 relay, Full Bushskinz kit, Rhino track mount, 7" led spots, 23" light bar, SPV block, Ultragauge, Donaldson secondary filter, LRA 81L aux, 105AGM in rear + Projecta IDC25, 2 tier rear shelf + slide, ARB on board compressor, 2.5 x 3.0 awning

NX build


My Journeys
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
sharkcaver's Avatar
sharkcaver sharkcaver is offline
"2000"+ Valued Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 5,808
Send a message via MSN to sharkcaver Send a message via Skype™ to sharkcaver
Default

So I made some enquiries today. I can get something similar manufactured for about $200. So not a great saving to be had, but $100 is $100 bucks.

And I've since learned Ronnie did test the deadman in feb this year. google ronnie dahl deadman and you'll find it. It worked pretty well in (wet) beach sand.

Also, A mate informs me drifta sell them too, so freight from the states isn't an issue now.
__________________
Gone to a new home ...MY04 NP GLS Man Di-D, Look after her..


MY16 NX GLX5, Dobinson's HD springs + MRR shocks + Firestone airbags, 17" Toyo Opats, XXX bar, Dominator winch + IB500 relay, Full Bushskinz kit, Rhino track mount, 7" led spots, 23" light bar, SPV block, Ultragauge, Donaldson secondary filter, LRA 81L aux, 105AGM in rear + Projecta IDC25, 2 tier rear shelf + slide, ARB on board compressor, 2.5 x 3.0 awning

NX build


My Journeys
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Pajshomoneroguntero's Avatar
Pajshomoneroguntero Pajshomoneroguntero is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Unfortunately there is no one ground anchor that does all soil types and winching conditions.
they range from useless to fantastic, cheap to expensive, light to heavy so it really depends where you do most of your driving in difficult terrain.

When trees or rocks are not conveniently located in the direct line of pull then a winch extension strap between 2 anchor points and winch of the centre section of the strap.


In soft sand then burying your spare tyre and using this as an anchor point works, best buried about 30 degrees off vertical so the top of the wheel is away from the vehicle, the face of the wheel is facing the vehicle and the winch rope is attached to the centre hub of the wheel.


Winching can be a simple quick and easy way out of trouble if it is a forward straight line pull and you have just lost traction but when buried to the floor pan in sand or mud the extraction loads are huge and will stress your recovery gear to failure. Likewise if you are trying to winch over a rock ledge. Always try and make it easier on your winch and sometimes digging is your worse enemy, road building and jacking up individual wheels then back filling or placement of recovery tracks under the wheels is often a better option.

I have done most of my remote off road traveling as a solo vehicle and always had a power winch and on the few occasions I needed it I had to combine other techniques to assist the winch. Now days I just carry a long handle shovel, 2 sets of Maxtraxs, a mechanical screw jack, a scissor jack and long base boards, with these and a bit of time and common sense I can get myself out every situation that I have so far got myself into. However if the High Country or anywhere on the Great Dividing Range was my backyard then I would have a power winch.


OJ.

Thanks OJ. I did consider the spare but given my travelling companions I think the spare solution is quite a time costly one and will wear thin very quickly with the missus if it needs to be employed probably anything more than once or if the technique fails on the first go. I am trying to instil a greater sense of adventure but 2 kids in the last few years has shaved a significant amount of patience away from both of us. That's the perceived risk anyway so although I understand there are no guarantees I'm looking for a best solution focusing on ability/range of use, time and weight. Cost is a small consideration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Onslow View Post
Do a search for Lan-cor on the forum. WA guys did some testing a while ago and were very impressed.
I'll go looking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcaver View Post
So I made some enquiries today. I can get something similar manufactured for about $200. So not a great saving to be had, but $100 is $100 bucks.

And I've since learned Ronnie did test the deadman in feb this year. google ronnie dahl deadman and you'll find it. It worked pretty well in (wet) beach sand.

Also, A mate informs me drifta sell them too, so freight from the states isn't an issue now.
I started thinking the same. I reckon that price could be sharpened for multiple units. Just checked Drifta's website and they're there, so good news.
__________________
NX GLS MY16 Auto: MM Towbar | Spare Lift Kit | Cooper ST MAXX 265/65R17 | SPVi Module mk3.1 | Autosafe Half Cargo Barrier | Torque Pro App | Donaldson 3um 2ndry Fuel Filter | Diff Breathers | GME4500 UHF | Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform | Roley's Rear Bash Plate | Bushskinz Underbody Protection | Airtec Snorkel | Onboard Compressor | Awning | ARB Deluxe Bar | Lightbar | Sherpa4x4 Winch | Bushskinz Sidesteps | Masten TPMS

Build Thread
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
sharkcaver's Avatar
sharkcaver sharkcaver is offline
"2000"+ Valued Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 5,808
Send a message via MSN to sharkcaver Send a message via Skype™ to sharkcaver
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajshomoneroguntero View Post
I started thinking the same. I reckon that price could be sharpened for multiple units. Just checked Drifta's website and they're there, so good news.

I'm thinking....one overtime shift and I'll make my first drifta purchase.
__________________
Gone to a new home ...MY04 NP GLS Man Di-D, Look after her..


MY16 NX GLX5, Dobinson's HD springs + MRR shocks + Firestone airbags, 17" Toyo Opats, XXX bar, Dominator winch + IB500 relay, Full Bushskinz kit, Rhino track mount, 7" led spots, 23" light bar, SPV block, Ultragauge, Donaldson secondary filter, LRA 81L aux, 105AGM in rear + Projecta IDC25, 2 tier rear shelf + slide, ARB on board compressor, 2.5 x 3.0 awning

NX build


My Journeys
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 5,686
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajshomoneroguntero View Post
Thanks OJ. I did consider the spare but given my travelling companions I think the spare solution is quite a time costly one and will wear thin very quickly with the missus if it needs to be employed probably anything more than once or if the technique fails on the first go. I am trying to instil a greater sense of adventure but 2 kids in the last few years has shaved a significant amount of patience away from both of us. That's the perceived risk anyway so although I understand there are no guarantees I'm looking for a best solution focusing on ability/range of use, time and weight. Cost is a small consideration.

Any ground anchor requires digging to remove it after you have finished your recovery, self setting plough type anchors do not require digging in so this saves time and effort.


Getting stuck is part of the adventure when traveling off road except when the weather is bad or you are faced with a race against time with an incoming tide. I do a lot of very soft sand driving and without doubt the quickest and safest recovery method if you are not buried to the floor pan is a pair of Maxtrax using the direction of travel ramp up and out method. If you are buried to the floor pan then digging is a waste of time and effort as you need to remove a lot of sand. Quickest and easiest way is to jack each wheel up individually by the suspension and insert a recovery track under each wheel then drive off in low range with very low tyre pressures 8-10psi until you are clear of the very soft sand.

Much quicker and safer than a winch recovery to a ground anchor and you can go backwards!



Best recovery tracks are either Maxtrax or Tred Pro, at around $275 a pair, 2 sets costs less than your insurance excess (that is if you are even covered where you are stuck).


https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=50164


OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT245/75/16, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Lockup Mate.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Pajshomoneroguntero's Avatar
Pajshomoneroguntero Pajshomoneroguntero is offline
Valued Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Any ground anchor requires digging to remove it after you have finished your recovery, self setting plough type anchors do not require digging in so this saves time and effort.


Getting stuck is part of the adventure when traveling off road except when the weather is bad or you are faced with a race against time with an incoming tide. I do a lot of very soft sand driving and without doubt the quickest and safest recovery method if you are not buried to the floor pan is a pair of Maxtrax using the direction of travel ramp up and out method. If you are buried to the floor pan then digging is a waste of time and effort as you need to remove a lot of sand. Quickest and easiest way is to jack each wheel up individually by the suspension and insert a recovery track under each wheel then drive off in low range with very low tyre pressures 8-10psi until you are clear of the very soft sand.

Much quicker and safer than a winch recovery to a ground anchor and you can go backwards!



Best recovery tracks are either Maxtrax or Tred Pro, at around $275 a pair, 2 sets costs less than your insurance excess (that is if you are even covered where you are stuck).


https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=50164


OJ.

As soon as the car is going down quicker than going forward I've released the pedal. Like you've mentioned it is undesirable to be down to the pan and you've lost a couple of options.

I've got the Treds. I've used them once on the old NJ. I also have a pair of ALDI tracks. Never put to the test but I reckon may be a less than sterling performance but you never know. I've just tried to spread my recovery options and without a suitable anchor the winch is deadweight.


Quote:
Any ground anchor requires digging to remove it after you have finished your recovery
Without the intention of sounding argumentative this is one of the pros toward the Deadman. Drive past, hook a corner and drive. She comes out. They show it in the vid.


I don't think it is a realistic proposition to carry every bit of gear to cover off on every conceivable risk, just too heavy and/or bulk. The Deadman piqued my interest given its light weight and low encumbrance. It isn't lost on me either that carrying the weight of recovery options adds to the likelihood of getting stuck in the first place. Just need to find that balance.
__________________
NX GLS MY16 Auto: MM Towbar | Spare Lift Kit | Cooper ST MAXX 265/65R17 | SPVi Module mk3.1 | Autosafe Half Cargo Barrier | Torque Pro App | Donaldson 3um 2ndry Fuel Filter | Diff Breathers | GME4500 UHF | Rhino Rack Pioneer Platform | Roley's Rear Bash Plate | Bushskinz Underbody Protection | Airtec Snorkel | Onboard Compressor | Awning | ARB Deluxe Bar | Lightbar | Sherpa4x4 Winch | Bushskinz Sidesteps | Masten TPMS

Build Thread
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rubber floor mat anchors NTX Generation 4-2 Pajero 1 02-11-14 01:11 PM
Lan-Cor Ground Anchor Onslow Bolted on bits, factory and aftermarket accessories 25 07-07-14 07:01 PM
ARB Ground Anchor Pajaru Bolted on bits, factory and aftermarket accessories 10 24-06-14 02:15 AM
Drawer systems + child seat anchors Dogtor Do It Yourself Projects 13 12-11-13 01:16 PM
What to do if have a wheel off the ground Rich Generation 4-1 Pajero 32 21-02-09 05:47 AM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.