Hydrogen fuel cells

[NTX]

G'day folks,

I did a thread search on this and came up empty handed, but has anybody tried adding hydrogen into their fuel, be it petrol or diesel? Im investigating this option at the moment. It does not seem overly expensive and simple to install. This is an example of what Ive been looking at: http://www.kempcospec.com/ There are also local retailers, but seem a fair bit more expensive.

Matt.

[NTX]

There is also this style, they seem to be able to produce a larger amount of HHO

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120952612847

[NTX]

Really makes me wonder why we aren't using this more and the line about hydrogen being to expensive to produce is BS! I could be wrong, but it is looking that way.

[nj swb]

Basic physics.

Hydrogen (as an energy source) is expensive to produce in an energy efficient manner. More electrical energy is used to generate the hydrogen than you can recover by subsequently processing it.

The people who claim they are obtaining a benefit with these devices also believe in perpetual motion and "greater than unity" machines. I haven't seen one yet that stands up to rigorous scientific testing.

And this topic has been covered on this forum before:

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2851&highlight=hydrogen&page=4

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=37966&highlight=hydrogen

A few members have sworn that it must help, but nobody has come back with proof.

[NTX]

As one person pointed out, the fact that at higher revs the supply of hydrogen would lean out and mess with your tuning. That can't be good.

[craka]

Basic physics.

Hydrogen (as an energy source) is expensive to produce in an energy efficient manner. More electrical energy is used to generate the hydrogen than you can recover by subsequently processing it.

The people who claim they are obtaining a benefit with these devices also believe in perpetual motion and "greater than unity" machines. I haven't seen one yet that stands up to rigorous scientific testing.

And this topic has been covered on this forum before:

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2851&highlight=hydrogen&page=4

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=37966&highlight=hydrogen

A few members have sworn that it must help, but nobody has come back with proof.

Though Hyrdrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe.

[stevemc181]

I wouldn't be touching it, too many negatives in my view. If they do as claimed, they would be common place.

http://peswiki.com/article:hydrogen-assist-fuel-cell-warning-from-former-installer

[nj swb]

Though Hyrdrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe.

The most abundant, I would've thought. But I don't get your point.

[sharkcaver]

The most abundant, I would've thought. But I don't get your point.

Try nitrogen. Unfortunately for hydrogen its also bonded to other atoms, primarily carbon in the natural world. And its the breaking of these atomic bonds to release the hydrogen that makes it energy inefficient.

[nj swb]

Try nitrogen. Unfortunately for hydrogen its also bonded to other atoms, primarily carbon in the natural world. And its the breaking of these atomic bonds to release the hydrogen that makes it energy inefficient.

He said universe, not planet.

[sharkcaver]

He said universe, not planet.

Oh, be semantical why dont ya . Sorry I didn't see the forest for all the carbonated trees.

[Hammer07]

Cut down all trees, all they do is suck up all the oxygen......

[NTX]

Carbon dioxide mostly.....whilst we are all being smart arses! But yes, Ive gone quite cold on this, especially after reading that ex installer article, I saw that early last night too. I worry about matching the supply of hydrogen to RPM and what that does to tuning. I reckon it would not be too bad on an old petrol motor, but not near my common rail ECU controlled diesel thanks!

[MatthewP]

Carbon dioxide mostly.....whilst we are all being smart arses! But yes, Ive gone quite cold on this, especially after reading that ex installer article, I saw that early last night too. I worry about matching the supply of hydrogen to RPM and what that does to tuning. I reckon it would not be too bad on an old petrol motor, but not near my common rail ECU controlled diesel thanks!

Its pointless in a diesel.
In a petrol engine it allows you to run a leaner tune and use less petrol.

Diesel already have the benefit of running lean, so its just adding extra fuel, which can be done by just adding more diesel or adding a diesel gas LPG kit.

[NTX]

Its pointless in a diesel.
In a petrol engine it allows you to run a leaner tune and use less petrol.

Diesel already have the benefit of running lean, so its just adding extra fuel, which can be done by just adding more diesel or adding a diesel gas LPG kit.

Matt, my understanding was that the HHO was supposed to do the same as the LPG assist, in that the HHO would improve the burn efficiency by acting as a catalyst? I could be wrong about this, but Im pretty sure thats the intent of the HHO kit manufacturers and the concept makes sense at least.