NO AIR BAGS replacing the cone rubber springs

[Ent]

Hi OJ

Missed this thread. Still going well I hope?

Cheers

[old Jack]

Hi OJ

Missed this thread. Still going well I hope?

Cheers

Yes Ent,

Still very happy with the replacement cones, I have done another 4 trips with approx 2650kg gross weights since fitting, compression performance is excellent even after getting a "little air" coming over a jump up at speed.

It would be interesting to see how they go on a softer sprung Challenger than, as an alternative to airbags.

cheers, old Jack.

[Ent]

Hi OJ

Assuming that they fully compress tempting for DooSo if a mainland trip comes up. Not a fan of airbags so might be a good solution providing the rear does not "drag too much". But even then might be an option to run at "standard" factory height of 552mm due to load and trim the front to match so would rely on these to deal with corrugations that overpower the 16mm rear spring. While this would sacrifice some ground clearance, as a single vehicle I would not be looking to push the limits as I would in Tassie in a convoy. Therefore not likely to miss the 25mm extra height. If worried I could sneak up a profile on tyre and claw back half of that lost clearance.

Mental note, must build up arm muscles before adjusting front height and get rigger gloves as the supplied wrench has rather sharp edges

Cheers

[cannonsjs]

After some advice regarding suspension setup from OJ I fitted a set of the Pedders 5899 bump stops. I was looking for a solution to handle the relatively light weight I carry in the back on a day to day basis, but then being able to handle the additional weight when towing the camper on holiday. Most people tend to go the airbag route when dealing with big changes to loads but OJ suggested the Pedders bump stops as a more reliable solution. I had them fitted before a trip away along the SA East Coast and am happy to report they performed excellently. With all the gear in the back of the car and the camper hooked up, they are just touching the lower spring seats. We only travelled on fairly mild off-road terrain but they came into their own when climbing a dune and having to maintain a bit of momentum over the bumps. Where the previous bump stops would have provided virtually no assistance the Pedders ones help control the load and the suspension didn't bottom out at all.


For a small outlay of $124 for the pair I feel they are a very worthwhile investment.

[old Jack]

After some advice regarding suspension setup from OJ I fitted a set of the Pedders 5899 bump stops. I was looking for a solution to handle the relatively light weight I carry in the back on a day to day basis, but then being able to handle the additional weight when towing the camper on holiday. Most people tend to go the airbag route when dealing with big changes to loads but OJ suggested the Pedders bump stops as a more reliable solution. I had them fitted before a trip away along the SA East Coast and am happy to report they performed excellently. With all the gear in the back of the car and the camper hooked up, they are just touching the lower spring seats. We only travelled on fairly mild off-road terrain but they came into their own when climbing a dune and having to maintain a bit of momentum over the bumps. Where the previous bump stops would have provided virtually no assistance the Pedders ones help control the load and the suspension didn't bottom out at all.


For a small outlay of $124 for the pair I feel they are a very worthwhile investment.

Did you end up changing the rear coils to King KCRR-23 at the same time?

cheers, OJ.

[Ent]

Hi OJ

Excellent thread. Couple of questions.

Did your heavy springs scrag out before the standard bumpstops fully compressed?

Do the new compression stops reduce maximum compression with standard springs? If not then I will get a set.

As you have figured gearing DooSo up for mainland trip so looking at either re-installing Dobinson 17mm springs for that trip, or mirroring your setup. VSB demise means not so worried about height though like the idea I am within MMA's range as sure the front CVs and tyres appreciate this. Front is a joy as just out with the C spanner and vehicle can be trimmed to any sensible height.

My custom 16mm variable diameter springs have worked a treat in normal use and moderate load. Makes me wonder why MMA did not go down that path. Using the low range crawler gear DooSo now happy to ride over rough stuff and not compress the springs greatly. They have stood up well to moderate loads unlike original where DooSo dragged his backside. DooSo very stable on the road and needs no additional care compared to a car.

In fact I now consider DooSo a "proper" 4x4 that can go were any off the showroom floor Defender can go. That was my bench mark rather than Tonka Toy.

[old Jack]

Replies in blue below;

Hi OJ

Excellent thread. Couple of questions.

Did your heavy springs scrag out before the standard bumpstops fully compressed?
No I do not believe they do based on my calculations.
More info in this thread;

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=44211

Summarised here;

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=429672&postcount=21

Do the new compression stops reduce maximum compression with standard springs? If not then I will get a set.
I have not tested this but if you are concerned about losing wheel travel, I suspect the axle articulation stops will still make contact with one wheel compressed and the other extended since the cones are inboard of the articulation stops.

As you have figured gearing DooSo up for mainland trip so looking at either re-installing Dobinson 17mm springs for that trip, or mirroring your setup.
If I was to do it again and with what I know now I would be having a set of King custom coils made rather than Lovells custom coils so I could have tapered wire as well as variable rate. Caution that running rear EBH's over 595mm will result in driveline vibration at 35-45kph.
VSB demise means not so worried about height though like the idea I am within MMA's range as sure the front CVs and tyres appreciate this. Front is a joy as just out with the C spanner and vehicle can be trimmed to any sensible height.
Even with the changes to VSB14 you still must maintain at least 2/3's of the original well travel in each direction. From and engineering point of view 2/3 compression and 1/3 extension is ideal for load carrying at GVM and off road work.

OJ.

[whereswes]

Hi Ent, just thought I'd throw my 2 bobs in for what it's worth.

After fitting Ultimate Suspension my rear end was bottoming out on full spring compression. Not good.

Fitted some extended bump stops but they were way to harsh. Trimmed the bump stops to provide by my reckoning 5mm above full spring compression but still pretty harsh (springs maybe too complaint and something I still need to address).

Since fitted Peddars cones and no more banging in the rear end.

Articulation impacted? Thinking it must be if the coils aren't bottoming out and the bump stops are rarely touched but happy to accept the compromise.

Cheers
Wes

[Ent]

Hi OJ

Refresh my memory what is the maximum front EBH to preserve the 1/3 2/3 legal requirement? From that I will add 10mm and that should be the maximum rear EBH for normal load. The trick is as usual what is the "normal" load. I found with 605mm limited issue with harmonics but the Drummond rear dampener (since removed as just wrong) fouled the brake lines so harmonic noise came from them. Reading suggests for some reason the manual is a little more forgiving in this area than the auto.

But lets assume 605mm is maximum never exceeded rear height, ie unloaded apart from driver and full tank. Lowest height wanted at GVM say 555mm and thus allowing 50mm spring drop.

Assume a 1:1 leverage factor so 220lb spings would result in 100 x 2 x 2 = 400kg load. We know diver seat is about the centre point so assuming load is there then 800kg load which is bit beyond GVM. Windup front springs and bingo in business. But that is where the wheels fall off as load more rear based and especially so if I go for the Trektyre solution. Heck back to ground zero in the calculations.

Lets say I decide front EBH of 568mm and rear at 577mm fully loaded then to avoid going over 605mm empty height so say 28mm of travel to play with. Spring rate then needs to be around 400 lb which is one impressive spring. That assumes load 50/50 front and rear.

Lets say it is 25/75 and 800 kilograms (ok nearer 700 but lets keep the numbers simple) then 600 kilogram rear. 600/2*2.2 660 lb spring for 25mm drop, or 330 lb for 50mm drop. Given spring rate practicality then still looking at 50mm drop so rear 555mm and trim front to match at 555mm and hope taller 15mm from 235 85R16 will keep me out of the ruts.

Ok OJ lets aim for perfection and email the spring wizard Mark King and ask him for the perfect custom spring for say 577mm front and rear EBH, or what ever the maximum legal front EBH is. The trick is unloaded EBH height at 595mm is your pain threshold and mine is 605mm. But your unladen weight is higher as you leave draws and other stuff in. The compromise is the spring will likely scrag out before the bump stops but the Pedder cones should help a lot so accept that trade-off. Free height needs to be long enough to trap springs at full articulation but bonus is variable wire option as used in mine when going down the King spring option. Basically a heavier load bearing version of my spring.

Your thoughts? Or is there something off the shelf that will work? I figure $300 for new springs cheaper than dragging DooSo's backside around. My custom springs are near ideal for Tassie and my usage patterns but no so much for long outback adventure at GVM. The 17mm Dobinson will help and work with my vehicle unloaded (just) but get a bit iffy on the trapping ability and might scrag out before the bumpstops.

Cheers Ent

[Johno_pb]

Worked a treat

I have 2" ultimate lift hd raised in the front (lots of accessories) and comfort raised in the back as I'm not carrying any wieght until traveling and then I'm loaded to the brim so after reading oj's hard work I decided the pedders cones were for me couldn't be happier did 570km on Fraser Island fully loaded and even when I got a little airborne off an unseen wash out it was handled with ease and only just contacted the stops gently I wAs pleasantly surprised and very happy with the set up

It does hinder rear articulation offroad a little if lightly loaded but I've got the diff lock so doesn't really worry me and well worth the trade off for the great ride and load carrying ability when fully loaded I just start touching the cones so there ready to back up the already great ultimate suspension I'm a happy man

[cannonsjs]

Did you end up changing the rear coils to King KCRR-23 at the same time?
cheers, OJ.

Hi OJ,

Sorry for the late reply. Missed your post initially. Yes, I did the springs at the same time. The setup is working very well for what we do. As far as I can tell the Pedders bump stops have made virtually no difference to the compression of the suspension.

It's not very scientific but the following 2 photos show the articulation I am getting with the KCRR-23 and Pedders bump stops while lightly loaded on a day trip. It must only be mm if it is any less than when using the stock stops.

[Peebee]

Reviving an old thread, does anyone know if these Peddars bump stops can be used with the original rear springs in a 2012 XLS. My rear springs feel as if they're bottoming out at times (had a similar experience with my PA Challenger before swapping to King springs) but not really ready to change springs yet. I hope I can change the bump stops first, see how they go and later swap the springs if necessary.

[Ent]

There should be no problem. But the ate intended as over load protection, rather get than to be active all the time.

[old Jack]

Peddar 5899 cones are a direct bolt in replacement for the factory springs assist cones.
The coils need to be removed to fit them so it is more economical to change the coils at the same time. Best standard to plus 15mm coils are Kings KCRS-23, they will cost around $200 a pair, Peddars 5899 cost $125 a pair and between 1.5-2.5 hours to fit.

OJ.

[XLS PB Challenger]

Reviving an old thread, does anyone know if these Peddars bump stops can be used with the original rear springs in a 2012 XLS. My rear springs feel as if they're bottoming out at times (had a similar experience with my PA Challenger before swapping to King springs) but not really ready to change springs yet. I hope I can change the bump stops first, see how they go and later swap the springs if necessary.

Hi,

I have a set of Kings KCRS-23 springs for sale, not a lot of use, I had to change out because I need a spring to carry more weight.

PM me if interested

Cheers
Paul