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Product reviews and New releases Review of commercial products and latest accessories

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  #11  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by Alexey2357 View Post
Why you think you can't do 200kg if manufacture claims that? I saw car accident. The Honda CRV was lying on its roof just on its part next to the windscreen. The whole car was lying on a single line. I believe this 100kg is a way way under the real capacity. The manufacture just to avoid cases and to be on safe side specified some number 3-5 times less then it actually can carry.
I'm not saying that you should put more than manufacture is saying. I just wanna say if manufacture claims something then mostlikely this is the case with 3-5 times actually more than it was tested.
Hi Alexey,

Landcruiser 200 has a payload of 600kg to 710kg so if you put 200kg on the roof then that only leaves 400kg to 510kg for aftermarket accessories, occupants, fuel and other gear. This residual payload will get consumed very quickly.

The problem with having 200kg on the roof rather than in the rear cargo area is the significant increase of the static centre of gravity, and this in turn has a compounding massive increase to the dynamic centre of gravity.

To give you an idea of the really affect of the change in the centre of gravity, get a 10kg weight and hold out at waist level and close to your body, lean forward, side wards and backward, then run for a few metres and stop quickly, remember how this all feels.
Now do exactly the same but this time hold the 10kg above your head, lean forward, sidewards and backwards, then run for a few metres and stop quickly.

You will feel and see the change in both the static and dynamic forces associated with just the change in location of the weight.

As the saying goes "You can't Phuck with Fysics"

OJ.
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Last edited by old Jack; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:07 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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  #12  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
BruceandBobbi BruceandBobbi is offline
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Originally Posted by Alexey2357 View Post
Why you think you can't do 200kg if manufacture claims that?than it was tested.
As old Jack says...The problem with having 200kg on the roof rather than in the rear cargo area is the significant increase of the static centre of gravity, and this in turn has a compounding massive increase to the dynamic centre of gravity.
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insect_eater insect_eater is offline
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Originally Posted by Alexey2357 View Post
......I just wanted to ask you guys who have had experience with racks. ......
.......So, Im gonna use roof as much as possible.....
Having been through the same thinking myself, and after reading much on this forum and elsewhere, the consistent advice seems to be to carry as little on the roof as possible. For me it meant seriously upgrading my camping gear to ultra-light versions or going without.

I try to keep the total of my roof platform and its load to less than 80kg - pioneer platform, RV4 oztent, maxtrax, recovery gear, shovel, sleeping mats, and tie-downs.

As OJ says, you've hit the limit before the box and it's contents, especially noting that the bike mounts might weight 4kg each.

As you say, roof rails and a platform are very expensive ways of managing payload given their very low weight capacity. The money may be better spent on investing in smaller and lighter equipment and minimising the need for roof carry. If you have light and bulky equipment, then it may be worth the cost.

It was a disappointing realisation for me to find that I really couldn't safely carry much weight on the roof.
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Last edited by insect_eater; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:59 PM. Reason: excess word deleted
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Originally Posted by insect_eater View Post
It was a disappointing realisation for me to find that I really couldn't safely carry much weight on the roof.
Roof load limits, towing limits, towball limits, axle load limits and real pay loads are never clearly discussed in a combined context in the marketing hype from vehicle manufacturers. Individually the specs look good but start putting them altogether and you soon see there are serious limitations that are not openly disclosed.

OJ.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insect_eater View Post
For me it meant seriously upgrading my camping gear to ultra-light versions or going without.
100%. We can learn a lot from hikers.
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  #16  
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Alexey2357 Alexey2357 is offline
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Thank you guys. I did not think about the center of gravity. I knew that it is not great to put onto the roof, because the center goes up and car gets unstable. But when I was thinking to put bikes onto the roof I did not think about that.
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alanymarce alanymarce is offline
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The problem with a bigger rack area is the tendency to use the entire space.



Recognising the high labour rate in Australia, what we did would have been more expensive in Australia, however - we built a rack designed to fit the existing mountings and which ignored the above comment - however we are careful to stay within sensible loading. When we carry a second spare wheel/tyre it's horizontal and in the front of the rack hence more or less central (fore and aft) on the vehicle, sand ladders & lightweight shovel - not much weight; and camp chairs. Most of the time that's it. However, for the very few occasions when we need extra fuel we put fuel cans on the rack - this is the only time we're close to maximum load for the rack, and it does increase the height of the CoG so we take this into account and transfer the fuel into the main tank as soon as we can.



PS: welding aluminium is not easy...
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  #18  
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Alexey2357 Alexey2357 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanymarce View Post
The problem with a bigger rack area is the tendency to use the entire space.

PS: welding aluminium is not easy...
I have made decision - I'm not using aluminium racks event if it is manufactured because of fatigue.
Not cheap, you can't take as much as you want and not sure for how long I can rely on them.
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Originally Posted by Alexey2357 View Post
Guys, where 80-100kg limit is coming from? Is that coming from Pajero? I saw an ARB roof racks have limit 200kg.
If this is the case then I really not sure if it worth spending the money just to karry 67kg(off road limit).
Right now I easily can carry these 70kg in a box + 2 metal bars I have.



This subject has been done many times. Refer to the picture below and note what is said.....limit is the lower of any figure supplied by vehicle manufacturer or roof rack manufacturer. Steel is still used in some roof racks as it is stronger than alloy and way less prone to cracking than alloy. Big disadvantage is weight. Best idea I,ve seen for roof racks to carry a lot of weight is a full length rack extending over the front bonnet and supported by legs mounted to front bullbar. Normally seen on troopies or toyota wagons when I lived in the top end.



In a nutshell....do not exceed 80kgs!!
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When it comes to strength of materials it really depends on the alloy of the base material. A good quality aluminium roof rack will be lighter, stronger and more durable than a mild steel roof rack, it will just cost much more!

Iron is the base metal and it has carbon added to it to make steel, this makes the iron stronger but also heavier. The more carbon the higher the strength of a steel but there is a limit before the steel becomes too brittle. Other metals are also added to steel to improves its mechanical properties of strength, corrosion resistance, weldability, durability, ductility, malleability, the list goes on. Small amounts of Nickel, Chromium, Molybdenum and other minerals can be used as alloying agents.

Aluminium is the base metal and in its purest form, it is very soft and weak but incredibly lightweight.
When other metals and minerals are added in very small amounts to make an aluminium alloy the mechanical properties of the aluminium change radically, strength and durability are increased to the point where the strength to weight ratio overtakes that of many steels. Copper, Magnesium, Manganese, Silicone are just a few of the alloying agent used. Aluminum alloys can go through a further process of heat treatment and depending on the type of heat treatment this will change the mechanical properties of the alloy even further.

It is about the selecting the correct material for the job and this is where engineers and metallurgist come into it. This is the science of material selection!

Unfortunately most time the accountants and sales & marketing people get involved and want to reduce costs because the customers and the market do not want to pay for the best material so a compromise must be made.

The only place where compromises are not made are in the aerospace and aviation industry.
Joe Average does not want the plane he is sitting in to fall apart around him at 12,000m high and doing 600kph!
NASA certainly do not want their spacecraft failing because they used the wrong material for the application.

There is a price for performance and safety.

OJ.
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MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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