KCRS-23 coils who has them fitted?

[littleriver]

I've just had a pair of KCRS-23 springs installed. With 980kg on the rear axle, I got a 32mm lift: LH 581mm RH 598mm


(It started out 15mm difference between left and right a the rear . I thought the new springs might even things out a bit, but they didn't)

Give it a little bit of time ... a few weeks they will settle ..
Ours now sitting Unladen with the Oztecs and Kings
R/H/R 590mm
L/H/R 585mm
960kg Rear axle

(we put a Waeco CF50 Fridge Freezer - Right Passenger side whilst traveling) makes it pretty even

...

[Poit]

Thanks for the info.

Poit 980kg at 589mm EBH (average)
Littleriver 1064kg and 570mm EBH
Bige 1153kg and 562mm EBH.

Unfortunately none of the above figures lineup closely with my spring / ride height calculator, I think the problem is my assumption that the progressive spring rate is lineal is incorrect.

Sorry I don't have an answer for the 17mm difference between left and right, presume you are parked on level ground and fuel tank is full.

OJ.

Just looking at the pitch of the springs as they sit in my car, it looks as if most of the soft rate is taken up already. The top third of the spring looks like the pitch varies smoothly from nothing, until it reaches the heavy rate of the bottom 2/3rds of the spring. So a graph of its compression might look a bit like a hockey stick, I'm thinking - or a straight line with a curve at the beginning of it, at least.

[Poit]

Give it a little bit of time ... a few weeks they will settle ..
Ours now sitting Unladen with the Oztecs and Kings
R/H/R 590mm
L/H/R 585mm
960kg Rear axle

(we put a Waeco CF50 Fridge Freezer - Right Passenger side whilst traveling) makes it pretty even

...

I can actually see that the car sits on a slant when I stand back and look at it (fuel tank full), but yes, my plan is not to fret about it, see what happens as it settles in, and put all the heavy stuff on the right hand side! About 10mm, maybe more, comes off when I stand on the side step, so it's not too far away from being even.

[littleriver]

I can actually see that the car sits on a slant when I stand back and look at it (fuel tank full), but yes, my plan is not to fret about it, see what happens as it settles in, and put all the heavy stuff on the right hand side! About 10mm, maybe more, comes off when I stand on the side step, so it's not too far away from being even.

If you look at the part numbers @ king's springs the front are matched off a Triton and the rear's off a Pajero ... (The Pajero fuel tank is on the opposite side may have mad the slight difference in height )...... but very close ...


....

let us know how your ride feel is ( a vast improvement for us as mentioned) ... not so much body roll either as before ...

...

[old Jack]

If you look at the part numbers @ king's springs the front are matched off a Triton and the rear's off a Pajero ... (The Pajero fuel tank is on the opposite side may have mad the slight difference in height )...... but very close ...


....

let us know how your ride feel is ( a vast improvement for us as mentioned) ... not so much body roll either as before ...

...

Close but not quite correct LR.
The front coils are common with Triton after torsion bars where replaced with coils.
The rear coils a common with earlier Pajero's that had a live rear axle and not IRS, on these Pajero's the fuel tank was located centrally directly behind the rear axle.
From the specs I have from Kings both KCRS-23 coils are the same length. I have fitted a set to a Pajero Sport and from memory the gaps between the spring turns seemed to be gradually increased indicating it is a progressive rate coils that has lineal progression. I have no explanation to why there is a 15mm difference in ride heights on Poit's Challenger.

OJ.

[chillipepperz]

I am following with interest. My 14 Challenger already sits lower LHS rear with standard suspension and a 120AH on passenger side in rear drawers. I am hoping to get onto a full suspension upgrade by Christmas (I already have the Bilstein rear shocks) but would like the ride height L to R to within cooee of each other.

Am I correct in believe if that these Kings springs will still be lower on the LH rear?

Are poly spacers used to correct this?

Or better off with Lovell’s or Dobinson springs?

Cheers!
Andrew

[littleriver]

Close but not quite correct LR.
The front coils are common with Triton after torsion bars where replaced with coils.
The rear coils a common with earlier Pajero's that had a live rear axle and not IRS, on these Pajero's the fuel tank was located centrally directly behind the rear axle.
From the specs I have from Kings both KCRS-23 coils are the same length. I have fitted a set to a Pajero Sport and from memory the gaps between the spring turns seemed to be gradually increased indicating it is a progressive rate coils that has lineal progression. I have no explanation to why there is a 15mm difference in ride heights on Poit's Challenger.

OJ.

good to be close ... was just cross referencing part number's and came to the assumption ... great to have OJ on the ball ....





....

[old Jack]

I am following with interest. My 14 Challenger already sits lower LHS rear with standard suspension and a 120AH on passenger side in rear drawers. I am hoping to get onto a full suspension upgrade by Christmas (I already have the Bilstein rear shocks) but would like the ride height L to R to within cooee of each other.

Am I correct in believe if that these Kings springs will still be lower on the LH rear?

Are poly spacers used to correct this?

Or better off with Lovell’s or Dobinson springs?

Cheers!
Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Unfortunately you cannot fit poly spacers to the rear coils in a Challenger but there are a number of spring sets available that have different length springs. To see if any of these are suitable I would need your individual rear wheel weights and ride heights to assist in providing some options. I have King, OME, Lovell’s and Dobinson spring data on file and there is a large selection to choose from, that range from standard duty to extra heavy duty so this is why knowing the individual wheel weights and ride heights is important.

OJ.

Your lucky day Andrew, you are located in Adelaide and I have access to wheel scales. Send me an email so we can organise a catchup to do a weigh in.

[chillipepperz]

Your lucky day Andrew, you are located in Adelaide and I have access to wheel scales. Send me an email so we can organise a catchup to do a weigh in.

That’s very generous of you OJ! I will PM you.

Cheers!
Andrew

[Poit]

I spoke to a guy from King springs and he said the right hand KCRS23 is 10mm longer than the left, and that in my case swapping rh and lh springs should solve my height difference, but that I could check that it was the rear causing the rhs to be higher by jacking the rear off the ground and measuring the front to make sure it leveled out.


My front (KCFR-55's) has a 24mm height difference between left and right, and jacking the rear off the ground only reduced this to 20mm. So I won't bother swapping the rear springs. The KCFR-55's are identical left and right, apparently.



My car was lopsided with stock springs (FL 522mm FR 540mm RL 551mm RR 565mm), so I'm going to assume that the issue isn't with the springs. I'll look into getting the individual wheel weights measured next.

[bigdave]

My left is lower than right also, but I have 35kg of AGM battery right over the axle on LHS. Just checked height (with fuel almost full).

EBH Left 573mm
EBH Right 584mm

Have had the KCRS-23 in for a bit over 12 months.

[Challenged1]

Hi Guys,

I'm a first timer here so please don't prod the bear too hard..

I have just installed Kings Springs with Lovells "Durashock" shocks and have made some interesting (and frustrating) problems. The new shocks are 40mm extended which I chose as I thought that having a bit of preload (10mm) on the springs will be a good thing.

I have Kings KCFR-55 front springs and KCRS-23 rears. These were advertised as 50mm lift, progressive rate springs on fleabay which was way cheaper than anywhere else I could find. I measured all 4 corners before I fitted the new setup.

I started with the front to get the harder of the 2 jobs out of the way first. I also installed new strut tops with the new shocks and springs.... Took about 4 hours from start to finish with the car back on the ground. I actually gained 55mm on the front. Needless to say I was a happy chap. Beer o'clock!

Next day I was onto the easier job, the rear swap. Everything went according to plan until measurement time. Hmmm, I only gained 15mm! and I now have a car that is front high.
Knowing something wasn't right, I jacked the car to get some measurements and low and behold, the KCRS-23's weren't sitting hard on the seat and I could move them off of the seating position. Not good. I gained 15mm RIDE HEIGHT but FREE LENGTH is way too short for the long travel shocks.

Leaving my back and forth with the supplier aside, I called KINGS this morning and had a decent, sensible and informative conversation with Mitch. It turns out that the KCRS-23 is not suitable for extended shocks. They are designed for OEM (500mm) shock length. OK, so what do I do and why are they advertised as 50mm lift springs if they don't work with longer shocks? What's the point of lifting the car If I don't get more suspension travel?

Mitch tells me they are not 50mm lift springs and are infact 15mm lift but only because of compression rate, not free length. (This explains why I only achieved a 15mm lift at the rear of the Challenger). Therefore, any advertising on fleabay claiming 50mm lift with KINGS SPRINGS is false! Be warned people.

Anyway without getting into the nuts and split pins of it all, Mitch was good enough (when I asked him) to go through all the various lengths of rear springs designed for the Challenger and Pajero and none of them have the FREE LENGTH required for extended shocks. The longest to suit is KCRS-33 which is 405mm R and 395 L. KCRS-23 is 390, same length as the standard springs. With the 40mm extended shocks I have on the car, I need a FREE LENGTH of 430mm at the very least.

Has anybody else had this type of problem? Any help regarding what rear springs to use with extended shocks on a 2011 XLS Challenger will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

[old Jack]

Hi Challenged1,

Are you saying the rear shocker length is 540mm?
Centre eye to centre eye?
Auto or Manual transmission?

I ran Bilstein B6 shockers that were 535mm extended and had trouble with tight brake lines and the coils dislocating when at full droop.

Problem is a combination of coil free length and coil spring rate, normally as coils get longer they also have an increased spring rate because people are looking at carrying heavy loads and still maintaining a lifted ride height.

The longest coil I know of is Dobinson C43-203 which is 425mm free length and has a spring rate of 2.702kg/mm. This spring rate is not particularly high so this coil will articulate well off road but it will not carry weight well.

If you can measure your rear ride height from centre of wheel hub to under wheel arch in a vertical line and list what extra weight is permanently in the rear cargo area, and what extra weight and tow ball loads you want to carry then I can look at what coils will be closest to meeting your requirements.

Ideally if you can weigh the rear axle then this takes the guess work out.

What are your front ride heights ?
What extra weight have you on the front axle?
If you are weighing the rear axle, so the front axle at the same time.

My initial thoughts are you need to fit a slightly shorter shocker and a higher, firmer rear coil but I wil need the above info to best advise you. I have done a lot of work on Challenger suspensions and have an extensive data base of what springs are available, what specifications they are and what ride heights and weights the coils will carry.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=44211

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=33830

OJ.

[Challenged1]

Hi OJ,
Thanks for the reply mate.

Unfortunately, I am "stuck" with the new 40mm extended shocks as I don't have a big enough bank balance to be swapping right now. Yes, the shocks measure 40mm eye centre to eye centre.
The Challenger is an Auto.

I did notice the brake lines getting tight at less than full droop with the new shocks so I did a bit of tweaking of brackets with a long screwdriver and a pair of pliers. I have a bit of free play in the lines now but will more than likely get some extended brake lines in the not too distant future.

I have read a few of your posts regarding the Challenger suspension and was reading another when I noticed you had replied to this post.

The front of the Challenger is so much better (on road at least) now with the new KINGS and Lovells shocks. I can't recall the original ride height now (I had it on tape on the guard as I measured) but I know I gained 55mm at the front. I think the OEM springs were past their best when they left the ship and 1 shock was leaking which is basically when I started to think of "upgrading" for better off road performance.

I'm an old dirt bike rider so I'll never be able to stay off the dirt! And I have a pretty good basic understanding of how suspension and geometry works but no where near as much as you and others here.

I only have a factory nudge bar and spotties at the front.

The rear only has a towbar to deal with and for now, maybe the occasional 150kg tow ball weight when I take a bike or two for a blast. I will have the Engel and maybe a dog or 2 from time to time. I'm happy to go with say, 0 to 200kg variable springs for now. The car will be used more on than off road.

I live nowhere near any weighbridge so unfortunately for me, I can't measure axles weights.

I just measured the ride heights again. Both front and rear are 585. Maybe another 20mm at the rear would be a good thing? I think a spring FREE LENGTH of around 410 would get the extra 20mm? I just remembered the shocks I have are rebuild-able so shortening the static length of the rear shocks should be a pretty straight forward job.

Mark