Why not to use a tie down point for recovery

[sharkcaver]

Very scant supporting documentation there.
Was that the front recovery loop or was that the rear tie down points? 2 completely different kettles of fish.

Seeing this design of front recovery loops have been in existence since the GEN 3 poked its head up in 2000, MMA engineers used one for testing chassis integrity whilst stating it was sufficient to use "using proper snatch recovery techniques", and of the hunderds of recoveries reported on this forum alone since 2000 without a single failure (to my knowledge), I think the above evidence speaks volumes.


EDIT: did not notice the sport bit, but the same still applies.

[abw]

The Mitsubishi Montero Sport is a Challenger, not a Pajero. The "tow hook" I assume he is talking about the rear ones (as he was towing) either side of the tow bar. These are indeed tie down points (4mm plate). To recover someone, you would use the towing hitch.
This has nothing to do with the front recovery points.

[mmannion]

Montero Sport is not a Pajero but the equivalent of our Challenger with separate ladder chassis.

EDIT: beat me to it Abw lol.

[nj swb]

As an example:

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=59027

One side has a substantial hook that is suitable for recoveries. The other side has a loop that is for tie-down only.

If they're anything like the loops on a Gen 2 Pajero, it's not hard to tell which is which.

[Rich0]

"When towing vehicle out of ditch the tow hook broke off and went through the tailgate of a 1997 full size dodge pickup. now they say it is not a tow hook it is just a tie down to get it here."

Yep, not much detail, and its a Challenger, and nothing to confirm this was snatched.

So the hypothesis can't be rejected and stands for now...

I second Gus' post though, let's go back to enjoying the forum.

The information is there, decide what you want to take out of it.

At the end of the day, a snatch strap is not always going to be the best recovery method, likewise, neither is a winch. No amount of winching or snatching would've worked here, just the old shovel and sweat method...

[72yellow]

At risk of opening another issue and I apologise now if anyone has a sensitivity but, is this whole debate a bit like Jesus - you either believe or not?

There is little data from manufacturers as they cant regulate every scenario, or make blanket statements without someone wanting to take them to task, No ADR's to be met BUT suggest a hell of a lot of physical evidence of Pajero drivers of the 3rd & 4th Gen vehicles that DO use these recovery techniques and the OEM points

Does anyone really know of any 3/4 series monocoque Pajero that has suffered in the way suggested in this 5 pages?

Sure its possible and I guess with more lightweight materials now being used we need to be mindful but the Mitsi video of some years ago is good enough for me & yes they still call them recovery points in their brochure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXixsvjDjY

Now back to confession... (Shouldn't say hell & jesus in the same space)

[Pauly Faulkner]

Some of the snatches I've had to do were around 20km/hr but the recovered vehicle hardly moves and needs a few attempts while I'm heavily accelerating.
Since the force is just a measurement of resistance from the car getting recovered and that pajero was barely bogged (I.e just rear wheels partially sunk in soft sand)and just popped straight out, a recovery like being sunk axle deep in the mud would be easily double that.

I see a lot of good points and advice in this thread

Common sense comes before any ratings stamped on anything, aid the recovery by digging infront of the wheels etc and use the right equipment and you're halfway to a safe recovery, common sense should get you the rest of the way.

[gregory0011]

Very professional snatch strap

Who says you cant stand close to a snatch or hook a snatch on a towbar??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lMxYnGIrw

[MoreliaMatt]

Who says you cant stand close to a snatch or hook a snatch on a towbar??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8lMxYnGIrw

Muppets!

[Wrex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexBxd_oC4U

yep Muppets

[Not Withstanding]

This article is elsewhere on the forum. I don't know where it's lifted from but someone will tell me if it's not a complete or accurate summary of The Video. Assuming it is accurate, we know that a new single tow hook (actually the article doesn't mention and perhaps you can see in the video whether it's the same hook, left or right) can handle six assorted snatch recoveries, in sand, I think in a relatively straight line. Again I'm sure some one will correct me.

As everyone has pointed out, anecdotally the loops are very strong and no one to the forum's knowledge has had an issue in recent times. But at the risk of being blasphemous, like climbing gear, most wise people would replace their recovery gear including the hooks periodically depending on time and amount of use, and what The Video doesn't tell us is how a five or ten year old hook (remembering they're welded on, maybe 'last thing on a Friday' as the say, and are not easy in that respect to maintain or replace) that has had a few knocks in it's life going in and out of creeks etc and a few good workouts, will handle another 10 or 20 extreme snatches at various angles by your cowboy mate with the supercharged patrol (hehe no offence, 'trol drivers, just wanted a stereotype for the example!) - or maybe jumping around on the end of a cable hand winch etc. Not to mention if you're buying a second-hand vehicle and you've no idea how it's been treated by the former owner.

Obviously there's only so much you can ask from any piece of hardware (though I do think the engineers could have done us the favour of doing another 20 or 30 snatches at the heaviest load on the new hook, and maybe even just measuring the breaking point of a few in a test facility) and the only answer is awareness and common sense. Which as we all know ain't so common. If you're reading these forums you're already not likely to be the muppet that comes to grief.

You just /have/ to use a bridle cos if one did let go you'd be awfully unlucky if the second did. And as everyone's said, give the shovel a work out, and keep the spectators well back.