Buying a commuter vehicle using online broker

[Ent]

I can now categorically state that the AutoExpert brokering service is a very bad joke. All the dealers have done is take the absolute maximum price, knock no trade off, and then claim that is the wonderful price. All offers coming back in around the $38,500 price. Was told by the broker that the price was $39,990 list. I got him to look at Kia's own site. Oh that is for the Si Premium, not the Si. Err? is not the Premium above the Si. Err, yes. So would I not want a higher spec for seven grand less? He even built up the price and found out the Si is around $32,500.

So have have wasted many hours with a deal maker that can not even check out Kia's own website.

Now they just rang back and they were getting prices for the SLI. And yes, they are now $32,000, still over the walk into dealer and state the online price from the website for the Premium. O'boy, a very bad joke.

So drop John Codagan a line and let him have it both barrels like he loves to do.

[MTN-KAT]

Hi

You might have seen the colourful online reviewer, John Cadogan. I am looking at commuter vehicle for lot of highway driving so my over capitalise Challenger can be kept for weekend work. Looking at a poverty pack KIA Sportage for 7 year warranty. Not sure if diesel worth the money.
Anyway, read the review by one of the internet's more colourful reviewers that is involved in a broker business. Anyone used this option, and if so your thoughts.
Cheers

Hi Ent,
Diesel is not worth the money. To avoid depreciation loss but still get a late model with some warranty, have you considered this? A 2016 Grand Vitara 4WD! Manual, fuel efficient, no air bag recall, no record of complaints for 10 years, proven reliability. Fulltime AWD and can go offroad with low range. Only car that can be towed with all four wheels on ground due to transmission disconnect feature. 16" rims so better choice of tyres. Only 8,500k's. Will last you 10 years easy. Jap built, and on a chassis. Cheap to service. Garmin sat nav. Situated in Canberra, so not too far away. Only $20,000 + onc. Cheers.

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Suzuki-Grand-Vitara-2016/OAG-AD-15684962/?Cr=3

[Ent]

Littleriver, your tactics pretty much on the money. One email to a Hobart dealer and pricing pretty much as you stated. Sadly no diesels on special pricing. Car broker was waste of time. So many phone calls and not one price close to own efforts.

Amazing the number of reviews that do not give fuel consumption figures achieved. Quoting the claimed consumption does not wash with me anymore having never got close with the Challenger. Yes Mitsubishi lied on the testing, maybe Kia have not. But given what VW have been caught with claiming again false figures in Australia I have about as much faith in offical Australia figures as I have about any Trump statement.

It appears that the petrol 2 litre has a thirst. Diesel not so bad based on what owners say.

Given DooSo has another year left as a commuter might wait until specials on the diesel version come around.

Friend has I40 diesel wagon and that while much more expensive shows the Koreans have come a long way. He gets between 5.7 and 6.3 litres per hundred kilometres per tank. So real world figures.

Cheers

[insect_eater]

Hi Ent, sounds like there is room for some good car dealers in Tas. I'm not exactly sure what your criteria are, but we've been reallly happy with an i30 diesel manual. I understand it has 5 year unlimited km warrant. It's like a go cart after the Pajero, has heaps of highway grunt for overtaking, and is pretty frugal. We paid $19K 5 years ago, and they go for $23K on the mainland now. I suspect the Koreans might be second to the Japanese for quality nowadays.

Maybe buy one in Qld, get a transit permit, and trickle home directly but slowly and have a road trip holiday on the way? Cheapest rego you'll ever have, with the extra spice of driving an unplated car, and sailing through tollways scott free. Did it myself a couple of years ago.

[Ent]

Hi

The I30 diesel is by all accounts a very good vehicle. Indeed, probably a better fit for what I actually need. A person at work had one but the transmission blew due to the torque generated by the diesel, which luckily happened in the last week of warranty. He brought a Subaru afterwards but misses the very low running costs of the i30.

Noticed on Car Sales a diesel Sportage for $34,990 at a local dealer. Ok, went to send and email and usual hassles with web based email approach so beloved by some companies. Despite making it clear, diesel only required and please respond by email as I am at work I get a phone call wanting to sell me petrol. Ok, typical lazy salesman.

Ok your best price. He wanted me to offer him a price in typical car salesman style. Look just give me your best price. Away he went it was luxury paint, etc, etc with full price of over $38,000 so how does $36,000 sound? Err, given you advertised it for $34,990 a rip-off. Then he attempted the usual approach and despite saying no thanks, goodbye I was forced to hang up.

The head sales person rang back on quality customer service so I told him to standby for both barrels. On Car Sales it came up 2017 years though he claimed 2018. Usual no mate you are wrong conversation. Look just check. Oh yes you are right. Turns out Kia upload all their vehicle details and the dealer just punches in the VIN and the advert is automatically completed. He claim Kia have problems around year change over. Ok I will accept this but why the salesperson's hogwash. Usual excuses then given.

Anyway, no thanks. Then yet another offer, this time $33,990, but I had lost all interest so no thanks. Had they come straight back with this price I probably would have said yes, but oh no, usual games. I suppose the old sales principle a sucker born every minute with a illegal bait and switch sales tactic still applies. Just think I brought my Challenger from this same dealer!

Anyway, while all this mucking around time to research the AWD system used by Kia. One word for off road use, crap. It is the Honda style automatic engage when needed centre clutch. So once the electronics pick that you are stuck then it engages. Nearly always too late. Great Utube video of an owner getting it stuck in a typical rutted road. TC appears non existent as well.

It claims you can lock the "centre diff" but that largely does nothing. Indeed it does not have a centre diff, just a clutch. The electronics switch out the "lock" above a low speed. In all a rather half baked AWD system designed more for slippery roads than a bit of rough road where the limited suspension travel means wheels get lifted off the ground. Ok it is a shopping trolley so fair enough but on another test a Subaru Forester showed that ground clearance issues aside a soft roader carefully driven can go a lot of places. I am thinking the extra for the AWD Sportage is probably not worth it if you are expecting much more than the 2WD performance.

The worry is the system used by Kia is likely to start appearing in less soft road vehicles. We appear to be seeing the decline off true off road vehicles with the SUV tag becoming yet another sticker and marketing claim.

So looks like i30 type better choice for me an forget about AWD giving much more benefit. Looks like the Mitsubishi super select system is the pinnacle of AWD/4x4 systems.

[crash486]

Have an i30 diesel manual 2010 model. Never used more than 5l/100km. Recently passed it onto my son and bought same again. This one has returned 4.5 l/100km for lasr 45,000 km.
What car would I like... the golf alltrack. Too pricey atm but certainly suit what I need.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[insect_eater]

Anyway, while all this mucking around time to research the AWD system used by Kia. One word for off road use, crap. It is the Honda style automatic engage when needed centre clutch. So once the electronics pick that you are stuck then it engages. Nearly always too late. Great Utube video of an owner getting it stuck in a typical rutted road. TC appears non existent as well.

It claims you can lock the "centre diff" but that largely does nothing. Indeed it does not have a centre diff, just a clutch. The electronics switch out the "lock" above a low speed. In all a rather half baked AWD system designed more for slippery roads than a bit of rough road where the limited suspension travel means wheels get lifted off the ground. Ok it is a shopping trolley so fair enough but on another test a Subaru Forester showed that ground clearance issues aside a soft roader carefully driven can go a lot of places. I am thinking the extra for the AWD Sportage is probably not worth it if you are expecting much more than the 2WD performance.

I've heard a few complaints from those who've attempted to take one of these new type of softroaders off road. As you suggest, I suspect their programming only copes with slightly slippery conditions, maybe snow at the worst. Subarus are a different matter - I'd have another any day, but I suspect that they are neither frugal nor cheap.

[BruceandBobbi]

ENT. We purchased two vehicles through the same broker. Can't recall his name as it was many years ago.

Will look for the paperwork for our buying price and the price we had from the dealers.The price difference was incredible.

[Ent]

Be interesting to get the name.

Given I "was" looking at no trade straight out cash buy it should be a straightforward task.

Learning a lot! Decided i30 diesel manual might be the go. Auto gearboxes can struggle under the diesel torque. So emailed just asking for this and best price with any colour acceptable within reason. Please do not ring as at work. Yeap, they rang. I do not want a diesel manual I need an automatic petrol according to them. Oh boy, here we go again.

If that what it takes give me a price on both! A day later than promised the quote turns up. It is $2,000 more than Hyundai's listed price. So decided a suitably double barrel response was required. Figured saves the repeated phone calls otherwise.

Received an email response that requires suspension of disbelief. Basically according the the Tassie Hyundai dealer just about all cars on Car Sales are hail damaged! As they have no diesel manual, diesel automatics, nor petrol manuals or automatics in stock for the entire state of Tasmanian they can only give Hyundai's advertised price. Err, I think they have just stated Hyundai is engaged in price fixing?

So their best price with a fully broken down into dealer fees, etc is straight from Hyundai's website. Oh yes, both are automatics as I need to have an automatic. Err? um? My Challenger is a manual.

Check out Hyundai on car sales for Tassie. Unless I am doing something wrong every time for a new car it comes up with click for special pricing. Given that their price at best will be Hyundai's stated price rather a waste of time.

So my 'research' has found one straightforward Kia dealer, one Kia dealership that attempts to flog you a car $2,000 more than advertised price. And all Hyundai options been either dearer than stated price or the same with a dealer's sales team convinced that you really need an automatic petrol i30. No doubt i30 automatic petrols a giving dealers a bigger margin. $2000 is an significant premium for automatic and rather not needed as in 230kms I might make five to ten gear changes.

DooSo is running strong so maybe he will make it past ten years and 300,000kms until I buy a Tesla that has no dealer salesmen

Though in fairness to one Kia dealer their performance was professional and just they had sold out of diesels meant they had nothing to offer, but still came up with a competitive 2wd petrol price on three vehicles.

Probably wait and see what next year brings and just ask them if they have a diesel option that time round. As for the other mobs, well, something tells me based on past history in a year's time all their sales force would have either moved on, or been moved on.

[insect_eater]

My experience with one Mitsubishi dealer was they they had access to a database that showed all stock held or ordered (in yard, on dock, on ship or not even built) by all dealers across Australia. they could identify which cars were pre-sold, or available for transfer between dealers by negotiation/stock swaps. I think demos were classed as pre-sold, as they had invested in rego already, and couldn't transfer interstate without loss. The database even showed estimated docking dates for ships, although my ship was 3 months late....... Another Mitsubishi dealer wouldn't consider looking at what was available within the network - they only looked at their stock.

I'd be surprised if the other makes didn't have a similar system.

If you can find one good person at one dealer, maybe you can get them to look a little deeper for you - find out what is available, when the next ships are due, and what they are carrying. Maybe there is a family-based dealer that has a salesperson who has been around for more than six months.....

The one time I tried using a broker, they couldn't do a better deal than what I could get. I suspect they're most useful if you want something like a 5 series BWM with a specific set of options. They can track down which dealer has that type of stock, and who wants to move it cheapest for whatever reason. This then saves you $ and time compared to ordering the car from scratch. If there is a factory deal on a povo pack, then I suspect that they are unlikely to do better price, but some might say that not having the hassle of shopping is worth paying a little more.

[BruceandBobbi]

ENT.

Sorry I can't find the name of the broker. It was eleven years ago. However I did find one quote from a dealer and the invoice we paid through the broker.

Dealers were not discounting as it was the new Gen 4

Written quote from dealer dated Jan 20 2007. $55,667.83 less discount of $i,067.83.

Total payable $54,600.

Price we paid through the broker $44,597.80. That's a saving of $10,000. Broker cost us $100.

We did purchase another vehicle through the same broker later in 2017. Again saved 1,000s.

[Ent]

2018 is not a year I will be buying a car!

Ok Hyundai crashed and burned thanks to the same dealer that stuffed me around a year or more back when I was looking to buy a Cactus C4. Talking to a few people that dealer is welded to the hip of a major brand Australian brand heading the way of the Tassie Tiger, and when I went looking for a Citroen tried to flog me their main brand, which generally winds up as last or second last on any worthwhile car comparison.

So I find out Citroen is no longer with that dealer. Not surprisingly so, as as dealer reputations go this dealer "has history" with most Tasmanians.

Ok, for reasons that no sane person would understand I like Citroen so off I go. I think many might have gathered I have low tolerance and respect for car manufacturers that have short warranties, especially when they reduce them. Hence, Mitsubishi has not even made it on any list of mine after they knee capped their warranty down to the bare minimum, three year hundred thousand kilometres.

Citroen made great store of their six year unlimited number of kilometre warranty claiming at one time this represented the great faith that they had in their cars. In in late 2017 they walked away from this and claimed customers would be delighted with their industry standard three year hundred thousand kilometre warranty. Reading suggest most customers gave Citroen the English Archers salute and brought other brands. After a huge number of sales, less than four hundred in 2017 even the most arrogant croissant realised that was not working, so now we have a confidence building five year warranty. Probably to followed the week after by the trend setting one minute one kilometre warranty. At that rate each Citroen you buy will have a unique warranty! Given how they are going probably all five will be sold in 2018.

What is it with the sales people in car companies? You can have some remarkably talented engineers producing better equipped and performing cars cheaper in real dollar terms, a sales team that thinks warranty is a marketing tool. To me a long class leading warranty suggests confidence by a car manufacture that they have designed and built a long lasting vehicle. A short warranty period suggests more than a few issues and that has cost them heaps so they are trying to cut their losses. Mitsubishi offered an industry leading warranty and generally reliable cars Then they got found out for rigging fuel consumption and emission claims, like VW. The 2.5HP diesel was a chooks lottery between getting a long lived motor or a steam generator, so warranty length in years and kilometres dropped in two stages.

Citroen marketing team in Australia appear to have not a clue and destroyed any respect with me over their vehicles' longevity. If you set a warranty period as class leading then stick to it or improve it. Going backwards suggests suspect motives. Treating it as a marketing tool is disrespectful to your customers as they expect what they got last time will be the same or better next time.

I suppose after the Royal Commission into banks we should have one into car salesmen

[crash486]

If you do end up with an i30 that isn't top of the line you will need to buy a lumbar support. The seats would have to be the worst on the market.
Since europe is heading the way of banning diesels and with the damage done by VW , I'd expect australia to become a dumping ground for diesels and maybe the prices will drop in a few years.

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[Ent]

Suitably jaded by dealing with car sales people decided to put the thumb screws on for a Kia Sportage diesel new but 2017 plated base model. I am sure I could have pushed harder but at $33,213 in Tassie this not too bad. I am certain car salesmen love the idea of getting you to give just one dollar so they can feel they won. Thanks to the advice on this forum I got some idea of the margins.

The broker was a dead loss thanks to Tassie's lack of competition between dealers. It was annoying been rung up every time an offer came in. I thought it would be go out to tender and couple of days later the best offer would be presented. So that was a learning experience. Also, I would have thought the broker would have checked manufacturers websites for specials and even car sales for dealers clearing old new stock. Sure I now understand demos are a potentially dangerous thing.

Though John C can be a self opinionated whatever it is worthwhile watching his videos. The local Nissan dealer buys ex "executive" cars from Nissan and sells them for near new price. Err? They are likely the cars used by journalists for test drives, track days, or filming advertisements. Also, cars damaged and repaired that can no longer be sold as new. Quick chat to local mechanic and he confirmed from this dealer an executive Nissan is a bad buy. Others dealers not so much. That dealer tried to flog me a high mileage demo 2017 i30 at a super special price that was exactly Hyundai's brand new 2018 offer. He made great store of the RRP. It appears that salesmen believe everyone is stupid and do not have access to the internet.

One JC (I think he likes those initials) video hit the mark, and that is why not to buy a Holden. I have in the past and experienced terrible build quality, a dealer that could not give a stuff, and Holden's it all your fault on warranty claims with best been it is ok to rust because it is not painted as that is a "non paint area". The pathetic warranty period and just the simple fact there is not one Holden model that stands out from the crowd. Much the same with Ford. Car counting to stay alert on a long trip and you barely see a Holden and outside the Ranger 4x4 Fords are even rarer. That is in conservative Tassie. Toyota and Subaru dominate the roads with Mazda coming next. Then the Koreans.

I suppose the warranty governed if I even looked at a brand. This discounted most. Mitsubishi's back sliding on warranty meant did not even look at any of their offerings this time.

So Citroen and the Koreans got a look. Citroen is so difficult to get to see a car in Tassie that got dumped out of the process and their constantly changing warranty suggests it is just a marketing play toy.

Call me strange, but a long warranty suggests to me the manufacturer is prepared to back their product with their wallet. Salesman BS say from Toyota saying their cars are so reliable they do not need warranty is insulting. Just ask a Hi Lux owner on their second engine if warranty has no meaning. At work at least two of the fleet of ten BT50 have had significant motor repairs at years four to six. Quick check of the internet confirms their problems are common. So for eighty percent warranty has no benefit, for the other twenty percent bills of over five grand await.