Why is everyone anti-Pedders?

[Greyfox17]

My old man has a 2014 NW and has just replaced the suspension with Pedders Trakryder kits, including spring and shocks... and so far (admittedly without going off-road yet) he says he loves the ride, the feel, the quietness and the handling.

As my 2002 NM 3.2 Di-D Exceed has just cranked over 302,000Kms on the original suspension AND we are looking to by a camper trailer soon, I figured it was time to update my suspension too... so based on Dad's comments about the Trakryder I went in a chatted to my local Pedders.

My topic for this thread was based on the fact that every time I search this forum about suspension, people always bypass Pedders as an option, or say that the wouldn't even fit them to their go-carts... so being that I'm a newbie to suspension fit-outs, why the hate on Pedders?

Is it their products? I have heard good and bad things about the foam cell systems (which the Trakryder uses) as well as about the mono-tube gas struts, so...

Is it about customer service and expertise/quality work when fitting? Every dealership is different and besides that, I was going to fit them myself (using them to change the springs/coils and strut tops).

It cant be about price? For around the $1,500 I can get a full Trakryder kit from Pedders OR a full Bilstein/Lovells kit from Bushskins4x4... so price can't be it, I guess.


So hopefully someone can tell me why Pedders seems to have such a bad rep around here...
And then can someone please tell me why I should go foamcell or gas?

The car (which has a steel bullbar) will be doing 70% road use, I live in the hills and drive 25kms to work 4 times a week, the other 30% will be towing an average-sized camper trailer with not a lot of gear in the boot, or gravel/dirt/sand/corrugated roads...


Thanks in advance,

Kevin.

[Nab]

It's not the products, just the franchise. Like any franchise type arrangement, how good they are depends on the quality of the manager and staff. Being a franchise, the more sales the get the better so some of the less professional/ethically minded store owners have given the brand a bad reputation. For example, their $28 safety check seems to recommend replacing anything that in not in brand new condition EG. your "normal" trusted mechanic will say ""the shocks will be fine for another 50k" whereas Pedders were known to say "the suspension is stuffed and is too dangerous to drive..."


Obviously they aren't all bad but like anything the minority ruin it for the others.

[old Jack]

To me Peddars suspension is rated slightly lower than ARB/Old Man Emu, you get an Australian wide warranty through their networks if they supply and fit the suspension, this can be important to some people as it gives them piece of mind when travelling. You pay a premium price for an average suspension, you are paying for the name, advertising and corporate overheads. As they are franchises you get good and not so good stores, they sell from their catalogue and do try the up sell. both Peddars and ARB are easy options where you do not have to think about what suspension you fit.

After 300,000km on factory suspension you can expect to replace a few more parts than on a newer Pajero and the job could take longer. Front strut top mounts will also need replacing, an extra $60 to $90 a pair + the cost of assembly so by buying preassemble struts makes good sense as these are just a direct swap. Rear coil lower coil insulators will be stuffed particularly the lower insulators, best solution is Polytuff urethane, lowers are about $70 a pair and uppers about $90 a pair. Biggest unknown is the front and rear suspension adjusters, these seize in the suspension arm bushes, and can be difficult to remove, in same cases they need to be cut out and both adjusters and bushes need replacing, parts are reasonable but it can be very time consuming so if you are paying for labour then this could double the total cost! It is important that all adjusters are free and move through the complete range so a correct 4 wheel wheel alignment can be done, failure to do this will result in rapid tyre wear and can effect vechile handling significantly.

Because of the front and rear independent suspension design, coil selection is critical to get the desired ride height and matching load carrying ability.

What are you current ride heights on all 4 wheels, measured from centre of wheel hub to underside of wheel arch in a vertical line?

How high do you want to go? Do you want or need a lift?
My concern would be the driveshaft joints have been running in a set position for a long time so by fitting a 40+mm lift could result in noisy joints and even accelerated wear.

What extra fitted weight do you have on the vehicle and where, if you can get to a weigh bridge and weigh the front and rear axle weights then this greatly assists with cup selection.

How much towball load do you want to allow for?

My recommendation would be King coils and OzTec struts and shockers, sourced from GSA Wholesales Suspension. Kings make the best range and quality coils in Australia and OzTec shockers are a good quality shocker with a long warranty.

Once you have posted the answers to the above questions I can recommend which coil part numbers will best suit your requirements.

OJ.

[Keithyv]

I went to Pedders MANY year ago for work on a car and they never tightened up the bolts on the top of the suspension towers.
When I went back they made out somehow it was my fault for bothering them.
I've never been back since...

Just my experience, nothing more.

[nj swb]

They've been around for a long time, and maybe things have changed, but they lost me many years ago.

Many years ago, I took my pride & joy (a 1974 Galant - no, I'm not that old, it wasn't exactly new at the time) to Pedders for a steering check.

They reported over $1000 worth of work required, which was a lot more than I could afford at the time - so I spent many years driving around, knowing that I had dodgy steering that was due to fail at any time.

Many years later, when I was in a better position financially, and could afford to treat my pride and joy with the respect it had never enjoyed, I took it to another steering and suspension specialist with essentially an open cheque-book.

They didn't fault many of the components that Pedders told me needed replacing - I was gobsmacked that these items had repaired themselves over time.

I told them to replace the steering box anyway, which they refused to charge me for (the replacement box, and all labour) after I pointed out a minor mistake (when I got home, I found a couple of nuts weren't tight).

Long story short, take Pedder's detailed report and compare it with an inspection report obtained from an independent specialist. You may be surprised.

This was back in the days when they were heavily advertising how good their "No Bullshit" suspension was, but they didn't use it themselves on their rally cars. At least they do now.

But I will give credit where credit is due:

I'm not traditionally a fan of Pedders, but I truly appreciate what they have done for me.

As posted elsewhere, I have Dobinson MRR shocks on my NT, and not having the best experience with them. After one failed and I had the pair re-built, they came back without top bushes. Because they had passed through too many hands, all parties were denying responsibility, so I needed to buy new bushes.

Dobinson don't sell them - they claim their shocks are designed to use the factory bushes, so I had to buy from Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi didn't have any in stock in this small backwater part of the country, so I rang around Adelaide trying to find something. Pedders had kits in stock, for the princely sum of $8 each.

Done.

Towards the end of a recent Simpson crossing, one had failed. For reasons explained elsewhere, I blame the design of the Dobinson shock rather than the bush.

Yesterday, I took the remains of the failed bush back to Pedders, and started by explaining that I wasn't complaining, as I don't believe the failure was any fault of Pedders. I then asked if they had an alternative product that may withstand better the demands of King EHD springs and Dobinson MRRs.

They spent some time researching on their computer, hunted around in their store, and returned with two alternative urethane bush kits. I chose the one I thought better suited to my application, and asked the price.

"No charge."

A $73 urethane bush kit supplied free of charge to replace a cheap rubber bush that failed under some fairly extreme circumstances.

I appreciate that.

More recently, I did have a good experience with their work. My mechanic diagnosed worn bushes in the rear suspension arms, sent me to Pedders because he was concerned his press wasn't large enough and he might end up spending hours mucking around. Pedders gave me a quote to supply & fit new bushes, and from memory, charged me less on the day.

So what's my current opinion?

Not a lot has changed. Where the diagnosis was already done, and it was a matter of supply / supply & fit, I've recently had some good experiences. I would take a vehicle to them for a check / diagnosis, and would happily pay them to do so - but anything they report would be taken with a grain of salt.

[MSF]

Maybe just the local franchise, but I was turned off them for the following..

Many years ago I was production editor at Performance Build Ups magazine.
We had a project car we were building up as part of the magazine ( Twin Turbo Toyota Cressida, nick-named "Project Sleeper") and as part of the build up we replaced all the Springs, Shocks, Sway Bars, control arm bushes etc.

As part of the story, I took it along to a Pedders franchise before it was all done and they put it on the road test machine and gave a report saying that the shocks were a little worn and could do with replacement and the lower control arm bushes needed replacement - (the shocks were replacement Monroe jobbies about 18mths before we bought i according to the paperwork we got with the car, so this sounded reasonable..)

After everything was replaced with good quality gear, Bilstein shocks, Lovells Springs, Whiteline swaybars and Nolathane bushes it improved dramatically. To finish the story for that edition that was getting printed, we wanted to take it back and get another rolling road report done to show the difference in the graphs etc. I was busy so had my girlfriend at the time take it in to the same franchise about 10 weeks after the initial test.
(The only differences being the suspension changed and the new custom plates now fitted to the car.) Now I am not sure if it was because it was girl that took it in and they didn't realise it was the same car due to the number plate chage, but it came back with a list a mile long that needed replacement, Shocks, Springs, bushes, Oil sump gasket, rear muffler, and front brake pads and machining... all up about $3,800 in repairs

It's clear they never really looked at the car as all the suspension was done, the new engine was rebuilt and there were no oil leaks, the front brakes were all brand new Skyline GTR brakes and it had a brand new 2.5" stainless steel exhaust system ....

Yeah, No thanks

[dhula]

I have had good and bad experiences with Pedders products and with Pedders stores.

My experience with different stores.
Bendigo, Vic
* Brought springs and shocks to fit to our LC80. Despite me fitting the gear myself, there was no Q's and it was no problem for the peeps in the store to do a spring change over when I fitted rear drawers. I only paid for the work and they gave me the springs FOC as they were a 'trial' set to see how they'd go. The 'trial' springs ended up staying on the car as they did what I wanted/needed and were added to the Pedders line up as one option for the rear of LC80s.
* Had a full suspension kit fitted to our (at the time) 95s Prado after having a less than "meh" experience with OME products. The quality of the work and people at the store were great and I would have no problems in recommending the store to anyone so long as the same people are still running it (I moved to WA in 2008 so have no idea).
Hobart, Tas
This store was OK but when I called with a problem with the front struts (Prado, bottom bush had flogged out on both front struts - common fault at the time) and we'd agreed that I'd bring just the struts in to be changed over, to then turn up and be told I had to take them home, refit them to the car and then come back to the store so they could inspect and do al the work themselves. To say I was less than impressed with the stuff around was an understatement, particularly considering the stuffed bushes was obvious to a blind man and I had them there in hand ready to go. To their credit they did all the work under warranty at no cost to me and did it very well including a new wheel alignment.
Cannington, WA
I only brought stuff from this store so can't comment on workmanship. Their openness to consider other brands, provide info and discuss my needs/wants was great. I found out through chatting with the peeps in the store (including the store owner) that the owner of the Cannington store and the Bendigo store where related somehow, IIRC they were cousins.
Mandurah, WA
I went to this store, as it was close by, to get work done as I CBA'ed doing it myself. They left nuts, bolts and even wheel nuts loose. When I complained they said that they always tighten everything up with a tork wrench so there should have been no problems. When I told them I used my tork wrench and everything was loose, they commented that my tork wrench must have been faulty. When I fronted up at the store with said tork wrench and cal certificate in hand I was rudely told I must be wrong and they are right and that's it's my fault. I will never enter this store again and will not recommend it to anyone, in fact I still steer people away from this store.
Salisbury, SA
I went to this store while working in Adelaide for a couple of months as our Jeep needed some work and I didn't have the tools or space to do it myself as I was away from home. I used this Pedders store as it was convenient for me and not knowing Adelaide very well at the time, I drove past it every day between where I was staying and where I was working. The peeps in the store where very helpful in sourcing parts at a very reasonable price quickly and getting me in with very short notice. Their workmanship out the back left a lot to be desired though. A broken windscreen, not refitting the air cleaner properly, leaving nuts and bolts loose and getting the wheel alignment way way wrong makes me feel the same about this store as I do about the Mandurah store.


I'll add my thoughts on the products later........................

[aussieintas]

I've used the Pedders store in Hobart a couple of times in the past but only to supply products fitted myself. Didn't have any issues.

[JoshF]

I have never been to a pedders outlet but I do have their springs with bilstein legs in my NS Shorty and have had since 2008.

A mechanic of high standing in the Pajero community recommended them over the other options in the shorty as the rest were all a bit harsh/firm in the ride. A friend in his shorty swapped to my setup after a test run over the lift he had.

Since installation I have broken one spring and had two bilsteins leak.

I added air bags once I had an LRA AUX tank installed

[Greyfox17]

After 300,000km on factory suspension you can expect to replace a few more parts than on a newer Pajero and the job could take longer. Front strut top mounts will also need replacing, an extra $60 to $90 a pair + the cost of assembly so by buying preassemble struts makes good sense as these are just a direct swap. Rear coil lower coil insulators will be stuffed particularly the lower insulators, best solution is Polytuff urethane, lowers are about $70 a pair and uppers about $90 a pair. Biggest unknown is the front and rear suspension adjusters, these seize in the suspension arm bushes and can be difficult to remove, and in some cases they need to be cut out and both adjusters and bushes need replacing, parts are reasonable but it can be very time consuming so if you are paying for labour then this could double the total cost! It is important that all adjusters are free and move through the complete range so a correct 4-wheel wheel alignment can be done, failure to do this will result in rapid tyre wear and can affect vehicle handling significantly.

Thanks for the heads up, mate... I wouldn't have thought of looking at some of those things otherwise. The rear coil lower insulators are a bit shot, so I'll definitely be replacing them.

**Funny story - a local mechanic told me not to put insulators/seats in with the new coils, but to put some garden hose over the top and bottom coils instead, claiming they would then sit better. Sounds like a bush mechanic myth to me...

What are you current ride heights on all 4 wheels, measured from centre of wheel hub to underside of wheel arch in a vertical line?

Not near the car currently, but what I can tell you is that the Pedders bloke said the rear has dropped 30mm and the front has dropped 50mm from standard.

How high do you want to go? Do you want or need a lift?
My concern would be the driveshaft joints have been running in a set position for a long time so by fitting a 40+mm lift could result in noisy joints and even accelerated wear.

No - don't want or need to do a lift. Apart from not wanting to stress the CV joints more than needed, we don't do much (or any, really) bush/rock bashing, so more clearance isn't overly important to me. I'm happy to have it back to the standard ride height... give or take a bit, obviously.

What extra fitted weight do you have on the vehicle and where, if you can get to a weighbridge and weigh the front and rear axle weights then this greatly assists with cup selection.

I don't have much extra fitted to the car... there are some roof racks + awning + roof basket up top and an ARD steel bullbar on the front (with lightbar and a couple of spotties). I don't have a winch currently or anything else that would make a difference.
I don't know of any weighbridges nearby, so would have to research that and get back to you.

How much tow ball load do you want to allow for?

Some of the campers we are looking at have a tow ball weight ranging from 140-190kgs...

My recommendation would be King coils and OzTec struts and shockers, sourced from GSA Wholesales Suspension. Kings make the best range and quality coils in Australia and OzTec shockers are a good quality shocker with a long warranty

I haven't heard of OzTec before, but from looking on the forums it seems you know your stuff, so am happy to consider them.
Not knowing any other brands to look at previously, I was looking at the Bilstein shocks + Lovell coils package a lot of people here seem to favour (just at the standard height though, not a lifted version)... probably from somewhere like Bushskinz4x4 or similar.


Also - while I have your attention - are you able to give me some reasons why someone would choose Foamcell over gas struts? Or the other way around?


Again - thanks for your time and help, everyone - greatly appreciated.

[Roofchop]

Foam cell is better for hard core high speed off road stuff, gas is fine for what you need!


Direct from Ironman shocks....



As an example, whilst the technologies are different between a nitro gas and a foam cell shock - we attempt to valve them as closely as possible so that it's near enough as makes no difference - infact you'd need to be very sensitive to the feel of your vehicle to tell the difference in valving of our nitro gas to foam cell shocks - and things like a change in tyre pressure would be more noticable.

Saying that a foam cell shock will perform better for longer offroad than a twin tube nitro gas shock as a general rule. This is because the foam cell design allows for more oil, which means it doesn't heat up as quickly and can cool down faster.

In our dyno testing (http://ironman4x4.com/news/foam-cell-pro-testing) it took an additional 4 minutes for the foam cell shocks to heat up to the same temperatures when run.

Cheers
Dave

[m_and_m]

I went to Pedders MANY year ago for work on a car and they never tightened up the bolts on the top of the suspension towers.
When I went back they made out somehow it was my fault for bothering them.
I've never been back since...

Just my experience, nothing more.

Same happened to me 15 year ago. They forgot to tighten there front struts. Obvious problem if they'd even taken the car for a test drive. Like above, one bad franchise spoils all the good ones.

[pb4x2]

Many years ago a friend took his Mitsubishi Verada sedan to Peddars in Mackay and was told his suspension was shot. At the time his car was neither old nor high mileage but he was gullible and paid $2500 for new springs and shocks. As a result I have never gone near any of their stores.

[dhula]

I'll add my thoughts on the products later........................

I have had good experiences with Pedders products in the past but have not used any since about 2012.

I did have Pedders shocks fitted to the front of our Jeep at the start of this year but they lasted 3 months or so and have now been taken off and the Jeep now runs OME as I got them as new old stock for less than half price of anything else.


I've had Pedders shocks on a ZG Farlane (they were cheap through the place I was working at as an apprentice and did the job) and springs and shocks on a VL Crumpledoor (sat nicer and handled better than the FE2 gear I took off IMO). They're not really 4wds so won't ramble on about them here.
I've fitted and used Pedders springs and shocks on a 80s cruiser and a 95s Prado plus driven a 45s cruiser ute that had a add-a-coil conversion done to it and was using Pedders shocks.
80s Cruiser (1999-2001)
This thing was heavy, ARB front bar and side rails, Warn 9500HS winch, duel batteries, Black widow rear drawers with fridge slide, cargo barrier, Kaymar rear bar (spare and jerry holder). I fitted springs which ended up giving an aprox 3" lift once they'd settled plus 41mm foam cell shocks. I drove this thing hard on the tracks (Vic high country, Vic/SA deserts, Robe beaches) but I never had a problem with the springs carrying the load or the shocks failing or fading. I do remember that on the shocks was stamped "Made in Canada", not sure if that helped or not . Shocks were less about compression damping and more about rebound damping and I prefer that compared to (for example) OME/Monroe shocks of the time that were more compression damping which I found gave a jarring type of ride. I only kept the 80s cruiser for about 35k kms after the Pedders was fitted so can't comment on longevity.
95s Prado (2002-2012)
The Prado had fitted, ARB front bar, Warn 9500HS winch, duel batteries (120ah Delkor battery ), cargo barrier, rear shelf (removed rearmost seats) so was heavier that normal. We used the Prado and went pretty much all the same places as what we did with the 80s cruiser plus caravaning trip to QLD, living for 2 years in Tassy doing all the tracks we could seeing the awesome east cost, the wild west coast and all points in between, a trip across to WA towing a Tambo camper trailer and then 3-4 years of exploring SW WA and the goldfileds. The Prado took us many many places and did a lot of work.

The Prado was originally fitted with OME springs and shocks at aprox 5k kms by ARB after all the above was on the car so the weight and use was known.
The Pedders gear was fitted from aprox 40k kms onwards until I sold the Prado at about 170k kms. It gave an aprox 2" lift once settled and after that stayed pretty much the same until I sold it. It was springs to suit the setup, front shocks were 35mm gas (foam cell wasn't available at the time) and rear were 41mm foam cell.

The front springs did not cut the mustard after about 25-30k kms and were not giving the lift I wanted so I added a spacer between the coil and strut top to give some extra preload and this sufficed for a while until I changed to Ridepro front springs which gave a better more consistent lift and better ride. The Ridepro springs were on the car when I sold it and were still going well at the time. The Pedders shocks performed well IMO and gave a smooth, controlled and comfortable ride with less emphasis on compression damping and more on rebound damping which is what I like. The shocks never faded or went off using the Prado the way we did. The rear shocks did start to leak a little out the shaft seal but that was after they'd done almost 100k kms but other than that I can't complain about them as they did what we wanted/needed them to do. The front shocks was another matter, I should say it was the lower bush in the front shock that gave us most of our troubles. The front lower shock bush would flog out to the point of tearing after about 12 months of use, max I got was almost 18 months. Sorry can't remember how many kms but it was always 12-18 months at most. This meant a complete new front shock (all done under warranty at no cost to us regardless of Pedders shop I went to and usually without too much fuss) as Pedders didn't hold/stock a replacement lower bush and it was different to all other brand on the market at the time (we tried to find one but nothing fitted the Pedders shock). Bonus for us was that we never had a front shock older than 18 months in the Prado but that means I can't comment on longevity of the shocks.


So I guess the question needs to be asked....................

Will I use Pedders again.......................................?


Most likely not unless I need to get something and Pedders are the only ones I can get it off the shelf right now without too much stuffing around or there isn't a better choice for what I want/need to achieve. I think there are far better products out there now-a-days and at a far better prices.


.

[Meth'd_up_Mitsi]

I won't buy Pedders purely because of their shit products, back in the 90's & noughties they used to sell rebranded Monroe stuff. I don't know what they did to them but Pedders gear had quirky tradition of shitting themselves promptly after their 12mth warranty was up. And Pedders would always tell you they were stuffed too. I've taken cars in with brand new Koni adjustables and everything new and these dickheads would give you a list of what was wrong which included everything you'd already replaced. And that wasn't at one it was several on Brisbane's Northside. Just money grabbing frauds.. And from what I hear they're still pulling the same bullshit to this day with their dodgy 28 pt "safety" checks. Wonder how many consumers they've fooled?? Surely word of mouth about dodgy practices has gotta cook their goose soon???

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