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**old Jack** · 22-05-19, 01:36 AM

Calculating the weights is an interesting exercise, I think you will find you gain some more payload as the seats are heavier than you estimate but I think you have under estimated the extra weight associated with a long rage fuel tank.
I notice you do not have an extra spare tyre with or without a rim listed or a set of recovery tracks, both of these items I would consider essential on your list.

First thing I would do is strip out the stuff you are leaving behind and then weigh the vehicle and getting accurate front and rear axle loads.

I am yet to find out what is the limiting factor or factors in determining the GVM.
It can not be brakes because you can be at GVM and tow an I braked trailer weighing 750kg.
It cannot be engine or driveline because you can have a combined mass of 6030kg!
It may be factory passenger rated tyre's but these can be upgraded to 10ply Light Truck construction tyre's, note they can be up to 15kg heavier per tyre than the factory P rate tyre's.
My opinion, and from the extensive suspension upgrades I have done on Gen 4's it it is the coil springs. Ideally you want to aim for a fully laden ride height of about 20mm higher than factory unladen ride height of 503mm front and 533mm rear and an unladen ride height of about 40mm higher than factory unladen. These heights maintain sensible angles on the driveshafts and still provide the suspension with adequate amounts of droop and compression travel for safe on and off road operations.

These target heights make the selection of coils important.

Front coils are fairly straight forward as the front axle load is relatively constant as roughly half the front of the front seat occupants is carried by the front suspension and 1/4 of the weight which is loaded in the second row seat footwell and seat positions so the weight variance is 200ish kg. Also front axle loads reduce as you apply load rear of the rear axle.

The selection of the rear coils is the difficult part especially if your unladen rear axle weight is low and you want to have a rear axle weight variance of 500kg to 600kg with a ride height change of only 20mm. Best you can do is appropriate EHD coils and airbags due to the independant rear suspension. I can provide you with a list of coils and comparison ride heights for King, Lovells, Old Man Emu and Dobinson coils.
Kings, Lovells and Dobinson will all do custom coils for a small extra cost.

Struts and shockers, in my opinion the vast majority of aftermarket units are too hard on compression and too soft on rebound control for heavily loaded remote area off road travel. Incorrectly valved struts and shocker will contribute to Strut, shocker, coil, tyre and structural failures as the changing loads are not controlled and dampened correctly.
Whilst technical data is available for aftermarket coils it is not available for struts and shockers. Koni that are at the better end of aftermarket range and I have read that some models are rebuildable so therefore custom valving may be possible, but not cheap. Unfortunately Supashock are not doing Pajero dampeners at this stage, they maybe able to do a custom set but they will be very expensive.

OJ.

**spot01** · 22-05-19, 09:15 AM

Unless I have missed it, I can't see the weight for the standard 88 litres of fuel?
Is the 13kg the under towbar guard or the towbar itself (I thought they weighed more than that)? Any accessories, eg, towbar, need to be added.

Do you already own the car or just considering one?

**nj swb** · 22-05-19, 10:56 AM

Where's the alcohol?

Surely you don't drink all that Pepsi straight?

I think you've done well to get your total as low as you have. I try to be weight conscious, but travel (solo) heavier than your number - I regularly choose to not add camping gear because it would mean increasing weight, not reducing it.

You haven't mentioned if you're on stock suspension, or aftermarket. Similar with tyres. Like OJ, I believe the factory GVM figure is initially driven by the factory springs - how much weight can each axle carry before compression of the suspension reduces travel too much? With higher-rated aftermarket springs I'm less concerned about the factory figure, but I'm not sure what becomes the next limit. If you hit a weighbridge, remember that LT tyres are heavier than factory, so some of the weight you measure hasn't been added to the springs. Similarly, my EHD springs weigh more than factory - so that's more "unsprung" weight.

Like OJ and spot01, I think you've underestimated weight in a couple of areas, but I think you've overestimated in others, so it may all work out in the wash. You've listed 45kg for the Xrox bull bar, which I've always thought would be light - does that take into account the weight of whatever is removed in the process? If you're not towing, leave the towbar insert at home.

You don't mention if you're touring or stationary camping - rooftop tent suggests touring. If you're touring i.e. driving every day, do you really need the solar panel? A 100Ah lithium battery (lighter than lead-acid

) should be more than enough to give you a day of stationary camping, if you go for a reasonable drive every other day. If you're stationary camping, find a lighter tent - you could then also toss the ladder.

Why do you need the inverter? Laptops, phones, navigation gear and kindle can all be powered / charged from 12V - buy the right 12V power supplies, and toss the mains supplies and inverter.

I think 4 litres of water per person per day is very generous. Given that you have multiple containers (smart), you could consider if it's practical to get away with fewer, then re-fill with whatever you can find along the way - the "refill" water can still be used for washing, and (after boiling) drinking. Practice washing dishes with minimal water. Only washing water should ever be thrown out - after the kettle has boiled, any leftover should go back into containers.

A 15kg shower system is quite a luxury - there are lighter ways to keep clean.

Your gas quantity is probably about right for two people for two weeks (presuming each gas bottle is approx 2kg of gas) - you could consider if it's practical to use fires for some of your cooking / heating requirements, but risk (running out of gas) vs return (in weight saving) is probably not worth it.

You've done well with a 60kg spouse - can't ask her (?) to shed any weight. Is it time to do some running?

Regardless of all of the above, I think you're pretty well set up for your 2 weeks away.

Where are you heading?

**Nab** · 22-05-19, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by nj swb View Post

You've done well with a 60kg spouse - can't ask her (?) to shed any weight. Is it time to do some running?

Geez, a man with a death wish hahaha!!!!!

**Dicko1** · 22-05-19, 11:29 AM

Roof load 100kg max.this also includes the rack..Rack weighs 20kg your limit is 80kg. ..very ambitious if your heading off road. Even Rhino-rack say to halve the carrying capacity if doing off-road/4wd tracks.

Have you included all the fuel. Standard 88 litres plus 128 equals approx 200kg. Payload from factory does not include fuel.

You should rethink your food and water . You wont be totally off the grid for more than 4-5 days I,m guessing as you don't state your travel itinerary. High pressure shower...waste of money.

Definitely unload the 3rd seat although I don't think it will be there if you have the extra tank. 1 litre of oil should be heaps, less water. less fuel, less food . Strip the car down to the bare essentials ...full of fuel , and work out your weight after taking to weighbridge.

If your really heading out just to deliberately stay off grid for a fortnight then I would definitely take a trailer with everything.

Double check your weights and get a weighbridge certificate.

**surf54** · 22-05-19, 12:59 PM

I can provide you with a list of coils and comparison ride heights for King, Lovells, Old Man Emu and Dobinson coils.
Kings, Lovells and Dobinson will all do custom coils for a small extra cost.

That would be great..We are still planning the 2" lift and 17" rims with 10 ply 32" all terrain tyres and chasing the extra weight of that compared to the stock. We consider bringing a sixth spare tyre only without the rim but learning from others having just enough tyre height with a 17" rim and maximum sized tyre the 10 ply's should be enough insurance maybe with monitoring the temperature as well.

We follow Roaming the Outback on YouTube as well and he uses the Koni's wide size on his Defender with twice the amount of oil nearly so they run less hot and as you said can be rebuild maybe with custom valve. He is very happy with them.

**nj swb** · 22-05-19, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by surf54 View Post

Koni's wide size on his Defender with twice the amount of oil nearly so they run less hot.

While you're researching make sure you understand the maximum diameter shock you can fit. Front coil-over is limited by proximity to the front drive shaft. Rear diameter is also limited, but I think it's the shape of the upper control arm.

Money no object, King remote reservoir - re-buildable, revalvable, I think they're even adjustable. But I'm not sure anybody has figured out a Pajero fitment yet.

**surf54** · 22-05-19, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by spot01 View Post

Unless I have missed it, I can't see the weight for the standard 88 litres of fuel?
Is the 13kg the under towbar guard or the towbar itself (I thought they weighed more than that)? Any accessories, eg, towbar, need to be added.

Do you already own the car or just considering one?

We bought a NX - GLX early 2018 and just clocked up 10k. Try not to make too many km before D-day...

I put the weight and balances out there to shoot holes in it. It is still a mystery to us how much fuel is already in there that does not affect the payload. From reading through forums it differs between continents. In Europe the payload is lower because they have kerb weight with maximum fuel and in Australia only with 10 liters of diesel? If that is the case we will loose another 78 liter x 0.8508 = 66.36kg of payload... pfff

Yeah 13kg for the tow bar as recovery point might be a bit optimistic. The MM oem tow bar is already on as part of our good purchase deal. Anybody has the approx weight of the tow bar including recovery hitch?

**Poite91** · 22-05-19, 02:22 PM

After reading this I thought I better get around to weight the paj. The paj was 2402kg with around 26L in the tank so added the remaining 62L at 0.85 = call it 53kg for easy maths comes to 2455kg with out people. See my tag for what's on the vehicle. Only other things was the floormats, air hose, gauge, easy deflator, snatch strap and shackles.

2016 NX Pajero GLX, ARB Deluxe Bull Bar, Bush Skinz underbody protection, AR32 Intensity Driving Lights, ARB Twin Compressor, Icom Pro 400, Old Man Emu suspension, Kumho MT51 tyre's

**Dicko1** · 22-05-19, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Poite91 View Post

After reading this I thought I better get around to weight the paj. The paj was 2402kg with around 26L in the tank so added the remaining 62L at 0.85 = call it 53kg for easy maths comes to 2455kg with out people. See my tag for what's on the vehicle. Only other things was the floormats, air hose, gauge, easy deflator, snatch strap and shackles.

2016 NX Pajero GLX, ARB Deluxe Bull Bar, Bush Skinz underbody protection, AR32 Intensity Driving Lights, ARB Twin Compressor, Icom Pro 400, Old Man Emu suspension, Kumho MT51 tyre's

So about 2600kg with full tank, wife and yourself. Doesnt leave much but at least you have a figure to work from. Make sure you keep a copy of all your weights for your future reference. My NW is about 2660kg without people but all fueled up and with fridge. I upgraded my trailers atm and carry less in the car now.

**surf54** · 22-05-19, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by nj swb View Post

Where's the alcohol?

Surely you don't drink all that Pepsi straight?

I think you've done well to get your total as low as you have. I try to be weight conscious, but travel (solo) heavier than your number - I regularly choose to not add camping gear because it would mean increasing weight, not reducing it.

You haven't mentioned if you're on stock suspension, or aftermarket. Similar with tyres. Like OJ, I believe the factory GVM figure is initially driven by the factory springs - how much weight can each axle carry before compression of the suspension reduces travel too much? With higher-rated aftermarket springs I'm less concerned about the factory figure, but I'm not sure what becomes the next limit. If you hit a weighbridge, remember that LT tyres are heavier than factory, so some of the weight you measure hasn't been added to the springs. Similarly, my EHD springs weigh more than factory - so that's more "unsprung" weight.

Like OJ and spot01, I think you've underestimated weight in a couple of areas, but I think you've overestimated in others, so it may all work out in the wash. You've listed 45kg for the Xrox bull bar, which I've always thought would be light - does that take into account the weight of whatever is removed in the process? If you're not towing, leave the towbar insert at home.

You don't mention if you're touring or stationary camping - rooftop tent suggests touring. If you're touring i.e. driving every day, do you really need the solar panel? A 100Ah lithium battery (lighter than lead-acid

) should be more than enough to give you a day of stationary camping, if you go for a reasonable drive every other day. If you're stationary camping, find a lighter tent - you could then also toss the ladder.

Why do you need the inverter? Laptops, phones, navigation gear and kindle can all be powered / charged from 12V - buy the right 12V power supplies, and toss the mains supplies and inverter.

I think 4 litres of water per person per day is very generous. Given that you have multiple containers (smart), you could consider if it's practical to get away with fewer, then re-fill with whatever you can find along the way - the "refill" water can still be used for washing, and (after boiling) drinking. Practice washing dishes with minimal water. Only washing water should ever be thrown out - after the kettle has boiled, any leftover should go back into containers.

A 15kg shower system is quite a luxury - there are lighter ways to keep clean.

Your gas quantity is probably about right for two people for two weeks (presuming each gas bottle is approx 2kg of gas) - you could consider if it's practical to use fires for some of your cooking / heating requirements, but risk (running out of gas) vs return (in weight saving) is probably not worth it.

You've done well with a 60kg spouse - can't ask her (?) to shed any weight. Is it time to do some running?

Regardless of all of the above, I think you're pretty well set up for your 2 weeks away.

Where are you heading?

Wanted to keep it G-rated but yeah somewhere under the bonnet

My wife is super capable of living minimalist e.g. like Miriam Lancewood - Dutch women rock and yes it feels like a lottery ticket

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Miriam Lancewood and Tamar Valkenier went on an Epic Female Expedition in 2019. They survived more than two months in the alpine wilderness of New Zealand. T...

She likes the hiking the best but vehicle supported overlanding is our thing together with a lot of hiking. We will overland a bit like Chris in venture4WD on Youtube sometimes stopping for a couple of days doing hikes and sometimes travel. It depends on the terrain and other factors. In 2 years we can fund the minimalist overlanding till we are not capable or sick of it.

The easy to set up rooftop tent and the Helio (portable weighs approx 15kg filled with water) to wash are non compromising factors for both of us at the moment.
Sorry mate did not see that I wrote inverter instead of regulator. One of my many brain farts

I corrected it to regulator.
We will have no inverter. We don't want to waist money, weight or energy to transform to household voltage and back down, just a regulator for charging the extra lithium through the solar or car.

The 45kg for the XROX is approx as well. Think is is 47kg with winch platform minus the plastic from the front. We will put combo fog/drl in the bar so no weight gain there.

You might be right on the water front. We like to put the 40 liter foot well tank from front runner in for the weight balance and will see how many of the 4 already purchased water jerrycans we will take with us. Our first couple of 2 weeks off grid will determine that to fine tune the water supply and other stuff before D-day.

We also did not add the portable toilet/table and snorkel yet. Anybody knows the added weight of a snorkel? Likely not only for dust we will probably have it pressure tested and add diff breathers as well but both are not super heavy but it all adds up. We might shed the alu table for all that because I already created a light backdoor table for cooking.
We also left out our wish of putting an air compressor in the cavity of the spare wheel and utilize all the plastic around it and make a neat hose connector in it. Of course I will need a hose to reach all tyres too but calculated 2.5kg in the recovery gear for a simple foot pump already.
Recovery gear weight might be underestimated though...

**cruisn06** · 22-05-19, 06:41 PM

Good to see someone else going over the weights,
What I found with my shorty is I am 2950kgs fully loaded. it gives me zero grief and feels great, although i have a solid suspension combo so it rides level which helps greatly.

On your comment for drawers, I actually removed mine, I had light steel ones from kings, they weighed in at 100kgs, instead I opted to go back to a false floor setup. I keep it very simple and very light.

I also stripped out anything I didnt need, plastic beneath false floor? gone, sound deadening gone, all gaurds and little pieces of steel are removed, I was able to shave about 120kg off my final weight that way. Mind you the vehicle is now in Africa and doing a couple year long trip so comfort isnt really a big issue for daily use I guess you could call it. more so about practicality.

**cruisn06** · 22-05-19, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by nj swb View Post

While you're researching make sure you understand the maximum diameter shock you can fit. Front coil-over is limited by proximity to the front drive shaft. Rear diameter is also limited, but I think it's the shape of the upper control arm.

Money no object, King remote reservoir - re-buildable, revalvable, I think they're even adjustable. But I'm not sure anybody has figured out a Pajero fitment yet.

For rears Dobinsons springs and tough dog 41mm foam cells. rides great and smooth. no bucking at all in the shorty so a LWB will be even smoother.

**old Jack** · 22-05-19, 09:09 PM

Last year Njswb in his NT and Pajero12 in his NW joined me on a 4,200km, with about 75% off the bitumen,10 day outback trip which included a Simpson crossing via the scenic route, Oodnadatta, Birdsville and Strzeleki Tracks. Both Gen 4's were at GVM +130kg to 200kg and my Challenger was at GVM+150kg so we were heavy despite only taking the "essential comforts". All 3 vehicles have EHD suspension and were +/- 15mm of the unladen factory ride heights despite being heavily loaded, no vehicle suffered tyre failures but one of NJswb OME front struts developed a slight weep. We covered a lot of kms in a short amount of time so we were not travelling slow when conditions permitted.

The Gen 4 Pajero and the PB/PC Challenger can be setup to "Overland" in remote areas for extended periods of time as long as they are not grossly overloaded or driven without a degree of "mechanical sympathy".

OJ.

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