Suggestions for front springs to complement KCRS-23

[agentthumb]

Hello everyone,

Followed OJ's advise and installed KCRS-23 with Pedders rubber spring for the rear. Working a treat now towing our Jayco Swift Outback fully loaded with 2 gas cylinders and a 20L jerry on the drawbar. Car and van rides level.

Stock height with no load:
RHS - 560
LHS - 550

After the sprint combo, my ride height with the van fully loaded hitched is:
RHS - 550
LHS - 550

New spring unloaded:
RHS - 585
LHS - 570


I'm looking at upgrading the shockers in the car to Bilstein. Thinking about doing the front springs at the same time.

I'm undecided on a front bar yet, but thought I'd get options for both. For each of the load scenario below, what King springs would you guys recommend for the front to complement the KCRS23 rear:

1. Stock front end
2. Bull bar @ approx 80kg

As the KCRS-23 is almost stock height + 10-20mm, I'm keen to achieve the same for the front.

Also, what have you crossed shop the Bilstein with? Why?

[old Jack]

Bilsteins are a great on road strut/shocker but I would not recommend them for off bitumen travel. In under 100,000km I had 3 Bilstein front strut failures on the front of my Challenger. And the rear Bilsteins shockers always struggled to control the rear EHDVR coils.

I came to the conclusion that the Bilsteins where too hard on compression and too soft on rebound control for my use.

Bilsteins have only a 1 year/20,000km warranty which considering the premium price is poor.

2nd time around I fitted Dobinson IMS/MT struts and shockers, softer on compression and firmer on rebound as I wished for. I only have just over 40,000kms on them so it is too early to really sing their praise in regard to longevity. The Bilsteins struts all failed with between 30,000 to 60,000kms on them.

If you are happy with the front spring rate and ride height then why not just leave the factory coils and replace the struts. Most aftermarket front coils are raised and for when you have extra weight added to the front axle.

I would suggest either OzTec or KYB Skorched for replacement struts and shocker unless you are doing a lot of heavy remote touring.

OJ.

[agentthumb]

Bilsteins are a great on road strut/shocker but I would not recommend them for off bitumen travel. In under 100,000km I had 3 Bilstein front strut failures on the front of my Challenger. And the rear Bilsteins shockers always struggled to control the rear EHDVR coils.

I came to the conclusion that the Bilsteins where too hard on compression and too soft on rebound control for my use.

Bilsteins have only a 1 year/20,000km warranty which considering the premium price is poor.

2nd time around I fitted Dobinson IMS/MT struts and shockers, softer on compression and firmer on rebound as I wished for. I only have just over 40,000kms on them so it is too early to really sing their praise in regard to longevity. The Bilsteins struts all failed with between 30,000 to 60,000kms on them.

If you are happy with the front spring rate and ride height then why not just leave the factory coils and replace the struts. Most aftermarket front coils are raised and for when you have extra weight added to the front axle.

I would suggest either OzTec or KYB Skorched for replacement struts and shocker unless you are doing a lot of heavy remote touring.

OJ.

Thanks again OJ. What would be your recommended King spring for the front if there was a 60 - 80kg bar at the front?

[BillS]

You might want to check out the ECB bars as well half the weight of steel ones and more cooling
cut outs. Guy on E bay sells them at a good price.

https://portal.ecb.com.au/products/90970?searchMake=29&searchModel=239&searchCombination=SPORT+%2811%2F19+to+%29+GLX

Bill

[JohnFromPerth]

As well as being half the weight, they also deform to soak up the impact of an animal strike, unlike steel bars that transmit the impact to the chassis. This can deform the chassis so that nothing runs true any more and wheel alignments are never perfect.

[old Jack]

Correct, alloy bars do absorb more energy than steel and are much kinder on the chassis. Smartbars go a step further with great impact absorbing properties.

OJ.

[pharb]

Re bullbar weight -

Are you looking at bar plus winch, or just bar?

For reference I weighed my ARB before fitting and it was 62kg, plus 22kg for winch.

The Smartbar I removed was just under 50kg, but it seems the Pajero Smartbar features an unusually heavy steel subframe, I assume for winch mounting to monocoque body, but I couldn't see how the bar could be utilised without the subframe.

Re shockers -
When I got our NX I was going to go down what at the time seemed the more popular route of Lovells and Bilsteins, but I was just starting to see comments about Bilstein failures so I went Konis instead.

Have got Konis on my old NJ and still going strong after 5 yrs on front (replaced worn out "The Ultimate Suspension" shocks) and possibly 7 or 8 yrs on rear (replaced Ranchos that had broken a shaft).

Have clocked up maybe 50,000km on the NX with the Konis and no issues.

[old Jack]

A Smartbar to fit a Gen 4 Pajero is 33kg and the winch version is 46kg.
A Smartbar to fit a Pajero Sport is 33kg and the winch version 42kg.

Most steel bars for a Gen 4 Pajero start from about 50kg and get heavier, except for the MMAL genuine steel bar that is about 35kg including brackets.

The Gen 4 has a relative short front overhang of 765mm compared to the Pajero Sport's 880mm, most bullbars add between 150mm to 250mm to the front overhang so this increases the leverage effect of the extra weight.

Interestingly the Pajero Sport had a front axle load limit of 1260kg and the Gen 4 1330kg but several years ago the Pajero Sport front axle limit was changed to 1360kg.
I could see no difference in the front suspension between the successive years of the Pajero Sport to explain this axle limit increase and the Gen 4 which has a 30kg lesser axle limit has a much larger and stronger front suspension.

OJ.

[agentthumb]

I looked at the smartbar and ECB bars for the QE, my logical mind says I should go with them, but my heart says they are so freaking ugly... Why can’t someone make a decent alloy bar that actually compliments the body work like most of the steel options??? 🤷🏻♂️

EDIT: I take that back, MCC makes their falcon bar in full alloy for the PS!

[Bladerunner99]

I looked at the smartbar and ECB bars for the QE, my logical mind says I should go with them, but my heart says they are so freaking ugly... Why can’t someone make a decent alloy bar that actually compliments the body work like most of the steel options??? 🤷🏻♂️

EDIT: I take that back, MCC makes their falcon bar in full alloy for the PS!

Another major consideration with bullbars is the frontal venting/airflow. I have read of overheating issues with the PS usually caused by fitting a bullbar.

[jaffles]

I wouldn't waste money on an alloy bar. They deflect bugs, finches, shopping trollies, and that's about out. Sure they absorb impact but it's only just before it transfers over onto the body work. With chances you won't be proceeding if you nail anything bigger than a rabbit as the car will probably be written off.

They are often made to fit to close to the body work for looks rather functionality, so the alloy has no chance or enough integrity before it just bends. So its an insurance claim and off to the panel beaters regardless. .

Furthermore unless you do a lot of night, dusk, our dawn driving over 60km/h, the ol bull bar could be seen as debatable 3K+ load of marketing BS me thinks.

Sure it can be justified as good insurance, but actually using a BB for what its meant for has as much likely hood popping a hose, snapping a spring, something flapping because a bolt has fallen out. Yeh it happens and its no show stopper, but the likely hood is small if you have prepared well. Driving slower at certain times of the day is part of that preparation.

Dropping a piston, cracking a radiator, doing a wheel bearing can all be show stoppers, but nailing a big roo, wombat, or cow will more often than not be show stoppers regardless of what BB one has.

3K+ if a lot of fuel. Plus you don't have the wind drag or have to upgrade suspension if you don't have BB. I know its boring and doesn't follow the crowd, just been there and done that. Haven't used a BB in 20 years, but shelled out 1000's in preparation.

[agentthumb]

I wouldn't waste money on an alloy bar. They deflect bugs, finches, shopping trollies, and that's about out. Sure they absorb impact but it's only just before it transfers over onto the body work. With chances you won't be proceeding if you nail anything bigger than a rabbit as the car will probably be written off.

They are often made to fit to close to the body work for looks rather functionality, so the alloy has no chance or enough integrity before it just bends. So its an insurance claim and off to the panel beaters regardless. .

Furthermore unless you do a lot of night, dusk, our dawn driving over 60km/h, the ol bull bar could be seen as debatable 3K+ load of marketing BS me thinks.

Sure it can be justified as good insurance, but actually using a BB for what its meant for has as much likely hood popping a hose, snapping a spring, something flapping because a bolt has fallen out. Yeh it happens and its no show stopper, but the likely hood is small if you have prepared well. Driving slower at certain times of the day is part of that preparation.

Dropping a piston, cracking a radiator, doing a wheel bearing can all be show stoppers, but nailing a big roo, wombat, or cow will more often than not be show stoppers regardless of what BB one has.

3K+ if a lot of fuel. Plus you don't have the wind drag or have to upgrade suspension if you don't have BB. I know its boring and doesn't follow the crowd, just been there and done that. Haven't used a BB in 20 years, but shelled out 1000's in preparation.

Thank you for the learned feedback it’s something I’ve been thinking about as well. Tho the 4wd trips have started to get a bit more extreme, as a result, I’m scratching the front bar due to the poor approach angle they’ve designed in. So the new bar is more for clearance, ability to mount recovery point & winch, and impact protection is secondary.

In regards to airflow, the MCC bars seems to have the biggest vent out of all the options out there? The Ironman bar is the worst I’ve seen for flow...

[JohnFromPerth]

At the risk of going off topic, collected a big kangaroo in a Holden Jackaroo (Isuzu Trooper) with an ECB alloy bull bar. This bar was well spaced out from the bodywork and soaked up the roo a treat. Broken park lamp was the only damage. I thought the bar was a write off as it was twisted back on one side to where it hit the park lamp assembly, but slacked off the mounting bolts and the bar sprung back into shape.
Always need space between the bar and the bodywork.

[jaffles]

Thank you for the learned feedback it’s something I’ve been thinking about as well. Tho the 4wd trips have started to get a bit more extreme, as a result, I’m scratching the front bar due to the poor approach angle they’ve designed in. So the new bar is more for clearance, ability to mount recovery point & winch, and impact protection is secondary.

In regards to airflow, the MCC bars seems to have the biggest vent out of all the options out there? The Ironman bar is the worst I’ve seen for flow...

Though I'm not a BB fan, think I have to side with OJ. Have a look at this SmartBar. 3K optioned up, much lighter, will bounce back from most strikes, Australian made. Doesn't look to bad to my eye. Downsides: black only, no recycled plastic in the production though the bar is recyclable.

Not sure of approach angle but there is a side view here https://smartbar.com.au/vehicles/mit...09-14-onwards/

[Sweefu]

Thank you for the learned feedback it’s something I’ve been thinking about as well. Tho the 4wd trips have started to get a bit more extreme, as a result, I’m scratching the front bar due to the poor approach angle they’ve designed in. So the new bar is more for clearance, ability to mount recovery point & winch, and impact protection is secondary.

In regards to airflow, the MCC bars seems to have the biggest vent out of all the options out there? The Ironman bar is the worst I’ve seen for flow...

ARB is also good and I haven't seen many reports of over heating with that bar.

I agree Ironman is the worst, particularly if paired with bash plates and the removal of the lower air deflector etc.