Bullbar/Winch/Maxtrax

[PaulH]

Just after people's thoughts thinking about certain mods for my pajero but worried about weights as l tow a caravan.
Also still trying to decide what type of 4wd tracks l would be comfortable completing as nx pajero is my daily drive but am planning to do cape york.

Do l go bullbar and winch which is alot of cost and extra weight?

Do l go winch cradle and winch keeping weight down but if l need the winch am l likely to do damage to front of paj anyway because of approach angle?

Do l just go set of maxtrax?

[Ian H]

A well set up Pajero will handle anything in the Vic High country and everywhere else you'll want to go. Just adjust tyre pressures to suit the terrain, get a good set of AT tyres (BFG for example), a lift is an advantage. I don't have a winch and have never needed one.

What weight is the caravan ?

[PaulH]

The caravan has 200kg tbm. It already had at tyres when l biught it as well as dual battery and airbags. I have added a snorkel recently.

[old Jack]

2 sets of Maxtrax or winch?
14kg shared over both axles vs 25kg to 30kg on the front axle?
Work in both forwards and rearwards directions vs forwards and with difficulty rearwards?
$600 vs $600 to $2000+ depending on the quality of the winch?
No anchor point point required vs anchor point required?
Safer vs winchline under high tension?

My last 2 4wds both had an electric winch, so for about 26 years I had been winched equipped as most of our travels are as a solo vehicle. When I bought the Challenger in I tried to fit a winch in conjunction with the Smartbar but if all got too difficult and soon ran out of front axle load limit.

So I purchased 2 sets of Maxtrax, these have been used extensively over the last 10 years in self recovery of myself and others. Having had both recovery systems I would prefer to have the Maxtrax for the off-roading. However if I was to spend every 2nd weekend in the High Country or Glasshouse Mountains or anywhere on the Great Dividing Range then I would be fitting a winch as well as carrying a pair of Maxtrax.

Cape York without a winch, not a problem especially if you are travelling with another vehicle.

OJ.

[PaulH]

2 sets of Maxtrax or winch?
14kg shared over both axles vs 25kg to 30kg on the front axle?
Work in both forwards and rearwards directions vs forwards and with difficulty rearwards?
$600 vs $600 to $2000+ depending on the quality of the winch?
No anchor point point required vs anchor point required?
Safer vs winchline under high tension?

My last 2 4wds both had an electric winch, so for about 26 years I had been winched equipped as most of our travels are as a solo vehicle. When I bought the Challenger in I tried to fit a winch in conjunction with the Smartbar but if all got too difficult and soon ran out of front axle load limit.

So I purchased 2 sets of Maxtrax, these have been used extensively over the last 10 years in self recovery of myself and others. Having had both recovery systems I would prefer to have the Maxtrax for the off-roading. However if I was to spend every 2nd weekend in the High Country or Glasshouse Mountains or anywhere on the Great Dividing Range then I would be fitting a winch as well as carrying a pair of Maxtrax.

Cape York without a winch, not a problem especially if you are travelling with another vehicle.

OJ.

OJ do you believe a bullbar is necessary?

[old Jack]

OJ do you believe a bullbar is necessary?

No a bullbar is not necessary but you run the risk of being stranded after an animal strike.

I have had animal strikes with both steel and alloy bars, small and large animals, all have been multiple animals at the same time and the vehicle has always been able to be driven but the repair bill has always been higher because of the cost of the replacement bullbar.

All 3 of my animal strikes have been in the middle of the day and not at night, early morning or late evening. All have been impacts of 100kph to 110kph without any chance of braking. Without a bullbar I would have been stranded and possibly injured.

I choose to fit a Smartbar to my Challenger because of the reduced weight and increased pedestrian safety but the most important feature was it ability to return to almost its original shape soon after an animal strike. This appealed to me particularly when doing extended touring, once a steel bar or alloy bar has bent then the amount of protection it provides is reduced.

In 10 years of having a Smartbar I have not had any animal strikes, but I have come close many times. All my research lead me to believe that a Smartbar is the best solution for frontal protection.

You do get a bit of stick from the traditionalist would only ever fit a steel bar.
ARB for many years only made and sold steel bars, as the market and vehicles changed they started making alloy bar. A few years ago ARB purchased Smartbar, they would not have done this is they thought it was a bad business decision long term. Smartbar have been proven to increase vehicle safety in frontal collisions, they are the only bullbar to have been fitted to vehicles and actually crash tested by ANCAP. If all the other manufacturers of bullbars on the market were that confident of their bars crash performance then why have they not done ANCAP test?

OJ.

[Brownie]

Have been driving off road for nearly 40 years and never needed a winch, but I have one now because I almost didn't get out of a bog.

Was driving across a low section of scrub as part of a 4 car convoy in Expedition National Park , on a track, and last vehicle in convoy fell through the track and bellied out. An attempt at recovery using a snatch strap went awry when the snatching vehicle - at the full extent of the snatch strap stretch, also fell through the surface, leaving the two vehicles connected with the snatch strap playing a C sharp note. Close inspection of the terrain revealed that we were driving on a matt of vegetation about 300 mm thick and underneath was a liquid slurry that just ran through your fingers. It had no bottom that we could find. Max trax didn't help in this situation, they just broke the vegetation matt. No vehicle had a winch. We did get out eventually with careful use of the snatch straps, but it took nearly 6 hours to get out, but a slow and steady winch would have made life so much easier. So I now have a winch.

[Dicko1]

Cape York trip will only need your vehicle serviced, good suspension, good at tyres and a winch is not necessary at all. Lightweight bullbar is best (smartbar). The road is just like any other corrugated dirt road but it does attract a lot of dickhead drivers who think that travelling at 130kph in wanker looking 4wd,s is macho!! Drive to conditions. Winch is a waste of money and adds a lot more weight to front of vehicle....the place gets extremely busy and there is always someone to help if you strike trouble. Wont even need maxtracks if sticking to main road and the popular side tracks. I,d go for a snorkel , not for water crossings but just to get slightly cleaner air higher up ( put a K&N snorkel sock on as well) as it can be very dusty at times.

[old Jack]

Have been driving off road for nearly 40 years and never needed a winch, but I have one now because I almost didn't get out of a bog.

Was driving across a low section of scrub as part of a 4 car convoy in Expedition National Park , on a track, and last vehicle in convoy fell through the track and bellied out. An attempt at recovery using a snatch strap went awry when the snatching vehicle - at the full extent of the snatch strap stretch, also fell through the surface, leaving the two vehicles connected with the snatch strap playing a C sharp note. Close inspection of the terrain revealed that we were driving on a matt of vegetation about 300 mm thick and underneath was a liquid slurry that just ran through your fingers. It had no bottom that we could find. Max trax didn't help in this situation, they just broke the vegetation matt. No vehicle had a winch. We did get out eventually with careful use of the snatch straps, but it took nearly 6 hours to get out, but a slow and steady winch would have made life so much easier. So I now have a winch.

Hi Brownie,

I have been bogged in super soft wet beach sand, almost quicksand, as water was about 200mm below the surface, suspension at full droop so bellied out and it was not possible to use Maxtrax in the conventional insert and drive away recovery method.
I had to jack each of the rear wheels up individually, by using my long narrow ply base plate on top of a Maxtrax and a screw jack to lift from under the suspension arm then insert the Maxtrax under the wheel. Then place the 2nd set immediately behind the first set that was under the rear wheel. Drive backwards 1 metre and stop on the next Maxtrax. Get out relocate the first Maxtrax behind the 2nd and drive back another metre. Basically I did a metre at a time for about 50 metres before I was out of trouble.

Without 2 set of Maxtrax, my long ply base plate and the trusty old screw jack I would have not been able to self recover.

I have used the 4 Maxtrax, jack up and insert, drive a metre at a time, recovery method many times on the super soft Limestone Coast beaches to recovery a range of vehicles.
https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=50164

OJ,

[Jasonmc73]

This is one i've wrestled with.

Bullbars & winches

I'm only a young fella late 40's, i have spent quite bit of time compared to many as fringe dweller, dirt roads acreage areas etc & also sport hunter going further a field, bush etc.

I no longer hunt, family in suburbs these days

I even thought about fitting cradle & just winch, bash plate that will protect the vital organs from roos etc was thinking.

Just don't want the weight & cost bar etc.

But rite at that time, like 6 weeks ago my work coleague hit two roos/ wallabys in a month, daylight hours, not convinced where he was they would even have been roos, ute busted front, water on ground after second one, tilt tray required, 1st one just gave the ute a black eye as it were.

Then i recalled a big roo i once hit, bent the bar pipe quite a bit, this bar was heavy enough construction had a hook welded on it you could recover the vehicle from it, not bars they sell.

Moral to my new thoughts is. NO i don't need a bar 99% of the time . But that other 1%of the time yeah could be at a really inconvenient time middle of nowhere & the bar gives me fighting chance.

So i'm fitting a bar, if plastic bars werent' so damn expensive i would fit one of them..

Winch never owned one, never needed one, but i'm leaning towards when i fit bar fitting Carbon winch weight 23kg's total all up & they reckon water ingress proof.

Why ? For the same reason as the bar , solo mostly & camper trailer until kids grow up.
I can also see merit in ARK jockey wheel & Maxtrax new trailer skid being able to pull camper with winch on sand, i live near many islands.

But i totally agree you don't need either & Maxtrax make far more sense in many ways for many situations & regardless who wouldn't use & carry them, heaps of uses.

Apart from that 1%er factor

Talking to a bloke today he used his winch once going to cape recently which was Palm Creek exit & he skipped Nolans etc.

[PaulH]

This is one i've wrestled with.

Bullbars & winches

I'm only a young fella late 40's, i have spent quite bit of time compared to many as fringe dweller, dirt roads acreage areas etc & also sport hunter going further a field, bush etc.

I no longer hunt, family in suburbs these days

I even thought about fitting cradle & just winch, bash plate that will protect the vital organs from roos etc was thinking.

Just don't want the weight & cost bar etc.

But rite at that time, like 6 weeks ago my work coleague hit two roos/ wallabys in a month, daylight hours, not convinced where he was they would even have been roos, ute busted front, water on ground after second one, tilt tray required, 1st one just gave the ute a black eye as it were.

Then i recalled a big roo i once hit, bent the bar pipe quite a bit, this bar was heavy enough construction had a hook welded on it you could recover the vehicle from it, not bars they sell.

Moral to my new thoughts is. NO i don't need a bar 99% of the time . But that other 1%of the time yeah could be at a really inconvenient time middle of nowhere & the bar gives me fighting chance.

So i'm fitting a bar, if plastic bars werent' so damn expensive i would fit one of them..

Winch never owned one, never needed one, but i'm leaning towards when i fit bar fitting Carbon winch weight 23kg's total all up & they reckon water ingress proof.

Why ? For the same reason as the bar , solo mostly & camper trailer until kids grow up.
I can also see merit in ARK jockey wheel & Maxtrax new trailer skid being able to pull camper with winch on sand, i live near many islands.

But i totally agree you don't need either & Maxtrax make far more sense in many ways for many situations & regardless who wouldn't use & carry them, heaps of uses.

Apart from that 1%er factor

Talking to a bloke today he used his winch once going to cape recently which was Palm Creek exit & he skipped Nolans etc.

Which bar are you going with?

[Jasonmc73]

Which bar are you going with?

I like the look of TJM bar, price is Ouch

But i'm looking about in car parks as MCC bars go ok & fair bit cheaper.

This vehicle has MCC bar,

https://www.5gooverland.com/our-vehicle-setup

I followed his journey & bar seen some country. He did bend bar in NZ think he was, winching, if you look through this forum he is Kiwi1973 you'll find the bent bar story, any bar probably would have bent as he says, bent back all good.

ARB bars only couple people but they have busted the front ends, rough going though. Stacks of them out there all the same.

My choice would be smart bar, if no winch, but if fit winch, steel cradle the weight savings & hassle to fit winch isn't worth the money.
ARB have made them expensive bars me thinks.

I reckon Aluminium, this bar below for weight wouldn't be a bad option & would keep a roo out, albeit damaged, but i'm under no illusion depending on what size animal & how you hit it you'll bend steel bars no troubles.
If fit winch steel mount anyhow so again i may as well fit TJM bar for the few KG's

https://portal.ecb.com.au/products/93720?searchMake=29&searchModel=239&searchCombination=NX+%2807%2F14+to+%29+

I keep ending up back at TJM bar

Reality is a $5k to $6k exercise for me, so still saving my pennies & time to consider.

[PaulH]

I like the look of TJM bar, price is Ouch

But i'm looking about in car parks as MCC bars go ok & fair bit cheaper.

This vehicle has MCC bar,

https://www.5gooverland.com/our-vehicle-setup

I followed his journey & bar seen some country. He did bend bar in NZ think he was, winching, if you look through this forum he is Kiwi1973 you'll find the bent bar story, any bar probably would have bent as he says, bent back all good.

ARB bars only couple people but they have busted the front ends, rough going though. Stacks of them out there all the same.

My choice would be smart bar, if no winch, but if fit winch, steel cradle the weight savings & hassle to fit winch isn't worth the money.
ARB have made them expensive bars me thinks.

I reckon Aluminium, this bar below for weight wouldn't be a bad option & would keep a roo out, albeit damaged, but i'm under no illusion depending on what size animal & how you hit it you'll bend steel bars no troubles.
If fit winch steel mount anyhow so again i may as well fit TJM bar for the few KG's

https://portal.ecb.com.au/products/93720?searchMake=29&searchModel=239&searchCombination=NX+%2807%2F14+to+%29+

I keep ending up back at TJM bar

Reality is a $5k to $6k exercise for me, so still saving my pennies & time to consider.

I spoke to a place today and was quoted 2300 for ironman deluxe bar have you seen them at all?

[Jasonmc73]

I spoke to a place today and was quoted 2300 for ironman deluxe bar have you seen them at all?

Yeah have also watched there page on social media etc

[nj swb]

Bullbar / winch / maxtrax?

I've been recovered by maxtrax more than my winch - generally by others, recovered myself a couple of times. On sand.

Most of the (few) times I've used my winch, it's been to recover somebody else (yes, I know, I've been recovered by others' winches...)

The only time I remember using my winch to recover myself was when I (recently) broke my front driveshaft. In that instance, I was with a small group of other experienced 4wders, and they did it all for me without me moving from my driver's seat - had I been by myself, I suspect I would've retreated back down the hill and found another way home, winch or no winch. I doubt that maxtrax would've got me through without the winch.

Price / versatility / ease of use in most circumstances - maxtrax (or equivalent) wins.

But there are some circumstances where a winch is the easiest / simplest / safest solution. I recall one recovery on a wet & slippery high country hill where the driver slid back into the downhill side of an erosion hump - had no traction to come forward, and was too far down the erosion ditch to back down the hill. Fortunately, that vehicle had a winch, and we used a combination of tree protectors, extension straps and a few resets to winch forward then lower back before the vehicle retreated back down the hill. It probably could've been effected using maxtrax, but would it have been easier?

Horses for courses. Which is a better solution depends on the circumstances.

Perhaps you need diff locks front & rear? That'll make you unstoppable!