Sand Flag mounting options

[alanymarce]

Hi: we're planning a trip around Australia this year, including time in the desert. We're preparing the vehicle now, and have the sand flag. We note that this can be fitted either on a "flag pole attached to the bulbar, with top of the flag a minimum 3.5 metres from the ground" or on a "flag pole attached via bracket at the front of the vehicle, with top of the flag a minimum 3.5 metres from the ground" or on a "flag pole attached to the front of the roof rack, with top of the flag a minimum 2 metres from the roof of vehicle".


Can anyone let us know whether it's permitted to mount the flag pole on the rear of the vehicle, with the flag 3.5 metres from the ground? This would be less visual interference at the front of the vehicle, and also would allow us to mount a restraint ring near the roof to avoid excess load on the flag pole mount (as the flag pole swings back and forth)? The flag would still be at the required height above ground level.


Please advise. Many thanks

[Kingbrown]

There's good reason for the flag to be mounted towards the front of the vehicle. Visibility.
Just draw yourself a cross section of two approaching vehicles cresting a sandhill and how a rear mounted flag would be invisible to the oncoming driver until the moment of impact. Not good.

After tens of thousands of km's of outback travel with sand flag in place I haven't had an issue with sway of the flag/pole and in the very rare instances where overhead vegetation encroaches onto the track the flag/pole just brushes past or folds over.

My flag is front mounted and I don't find it overly intrusive.

[nj swb]

Hello,

Long time reader, first time poster?

The intent is to have the flag as far forward as possible, to help reduce the risk of two vehicles meeting at a dune crest - it really does happen. When climbing dunes, the typical nose-up attitude of the vehicle means that a flag mounted to the rear of the vehicle is essentially useless.

I understand your desire to provide extra support to the pole, but there are a number of sand flag poles available that cope quite well mounted only at the base.

Do you have a bull bar? My home-made flag pole mounts to the "deck" of my bull bar, then passes through a tab on the top bar, for extra support. This has worked for three Simpson crossings, plus a number of other trips playing in sand dune country.

I also understand your concern about visual interference, but I only notice mine in photographs that I have taken from the driver's seat. During driving, I'm looking at the road / track and what's coming up - I don't notice the flag pole on the bull bar.

Good luck with your trip.

[traktor]

In addition to the previous strong points it is good to have the sand flag in front of you, so you can see when it is broken. When I was crossing the Simpson desert I used a sand flag from anaconda (4x4 equip brand) and I had to stop and to fix the flag many times unless I taped all the joints. The flag was a throw away by the end of the crossing.

[alanymarce]

"Long time reader, first time poster?"



Yes - good guess. Finally getting nuts and bolts in place for this trip (we've done one around South America (11 months) and one around Africa (9 months), and will no doubt be posting other questions in the next few weeks.



Thanks for the great advice from everyone - great comments.



We hadn't thought of the geometry issue which is obvious now you mention it - a rear-mounted flagpole would have to be 6 m high! Great point and so we won't do this. We're leaning towards the roof-rack-mounted option (with a mount at the front of the rack). Looking at the geometry, although the rules say that a 2m height is OK, I can see that on a steep dune even this will result in a significant loss of visibility so we're thinking of using the full 3.5 m flag pole anyway. A roof rack mounting will presumably also be less likely to contravene the ADRs (or be perceived to do so).


We can see the value of front mounting to see a broken flag. If we mount on the front of the roof rack it'll be less obvious but still visible through the sun roof.



No bull bar planned - however we recognise the potential for collisions so may need to revisit this decision - we prefer not to have one. The winch will be mounted within the bumper structure with a strong frame providing more resistance, and so far we have thought that we would not install a bull bar.



thanks again to all.

[old Jack]

Extended tours through South America and Africa should make you well experienced and setup for a tour of Australia except the lack of bullbar.

You do not say what year and model 4wd you have, reason I ask is it would be easy to source a secondhand bullbar given the time you have and then fit it when you arrive in Australia. Yes it is possible to travel Australia without a bullbar but it is a numbers game on not if but when you will have an animal strike when driving outside the city. In 25 years of 4wd ownership and over 700,000km of driving, 60% has been outside the city areas, I have had only 3 animal strikes, all were in the middle of the day, at 100kph and not avoidable. Fortunately I had a bullbar fitted on each occasion and was able to continue my travels with only minor damage. I have had hundreds of close calls so I have been very lucky compared to others.

I for one would be interested in hearing about your global travels and see photos so if you have time and feel inclined why not post a report or 2.

OJ.

[Alex86]

but it is a numbers game

Definitely!
I’ve done a reasonable amount of night driving through the Pilbara. Only cleaned up birds (in daylight), but have been very close to Roos, emus and cattle.
A friend did one drive at night- cleaned up a roo. Some people are just unlucky when it comes to that!

[alanymarce]

The vehicle is a 2016 Mitsubishi Montero 3.8L auto 5 door.



I'll get around to posting something on the previous trips, however for now have a look at:


Africa - www.http://unochoenafrica.blogspot.com


South America - http://suramericacontraelreloj.blogspot.com


We'll have a look at possible bull bar acquisition once we arrive. I am a bit concerned about some reports that the ADRs consider them illegal. We've found that driving a Colombian-registered vehicle attracts police attention and so seek to avoid any "grey areas" in terms of legality of the vehicle. What's the current view on bull bars and ADRs?

[erad]

Alanymarce:
Firstly, I must say that I have a bullbar on my Pajero. I live and drive in an area where the kangaroo population is really thick and I want to avoid damage. Having said this, you can drive around Australia without a bullbar. I have done this twice and didn't hit anything. The key to this is to recognise where the kangaroos are likely to be and to adjust your speed accordingly. Also, do NOT drive at nightime or very early morning because that is when kangaroos are most active. Kangaroos can and do jump out onto the road at any time and anywhere, but in heavily timbered forests (including National Parks) you can expect them moreso than in open cultivated farmland.



Also, because the bitumen surface of the road is warmer than the surrounding areas, cows come out onto the road at night and go to sleep. They are very difficult to see at night and a collision with a cow will result in serious damage and even injury to occupants of the car. There are large eagles in Australia - they are called Wedgetails. They seek out roadkills each morning and because they are very heavy birds, their ability to take off when a car is approaching is limited. Sometimes you will see a dead cow (or roo, pig, sheep etc) onthe road and shortly after, a dead wedgetail. The wedgies normally take out a windscreen because they are trying to take off as the 100 km/h car approaches.



Reading everyone else's posts, you would think that kangaroos jump out in front of you as you drive across the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Well that is most unlikely, but you can expect to see a roo to two on your trip, but in reality, not that many. Unless you intend to go really offroad, it is most likely that somebody will come along if you do have car troubles - probably within a day at the most. If you are intending to go really wild, you should notify someone eg the local police of your travel plans and then ensure that you notify them when you complete the trip so that they do not initiate a search and rescue. Mind you, if you do hit a roo and smash your radiator, you will not be going anywhere except on the back of a flat top tow truck and that is expensive when you are outback.


As I said at the start of this post, I do have a bullbar and where I travel, I would not be without it. In fact, when I have to do night driving it is our choice to use my car instead of my wife's car because her car does not have a bullbar. Her car has a nudge bar which hopefully will still protect the radiator, although I think it is more cosmetic than practical protection. but maybe that is another option you could consider. Personally I would go for the stronger bullbar if I were to fit anything.

[nj swb]

The vehicle is a 2016 Mitsubishi Montero 3.8L auto 5 door.

We'll have a look at possible bull bar acquisition once we arrive. I am a bit concerned about some reports that the ADRs consider them illegal. We've found that driving a Colombian-registered vehicle attracts police attention and so seek to avoid any "grey areas" in terms of legality of the vehicle. What's the current view on bull bars and ADRs?

Here in Australia our police fit bull bars to their Pajeros. I don't think you'll have any trouble on that front.

I've got one pick. Is it what you are looking for;

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/NSWP-Mitsubishi_Pajero.jpg

[old Jack]

Here in Australia our police fit bull bars to their Pajeros. I don't think you'll have any trouble on that front.





https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...shi_Pajero.jpg

All bullbars that are sold in Australia are meant to be ADR compliant so no problems there. I have seen 4wds from overseas touring Australia, easily noticeable from the overseas number plates and the "interesting" bolted on accessories that mainly include front bullbars and rear bars that have fuel containers and spare tyre's or massive tool boxes mounted on them.

I was under the impression that the ADR's only applied to vehicle being permantley imported and registered in Australia. However you would need to be compliant with the Road Traffic Acts which include "no dangerous protrusions on the exterior of the vehicle"

If you fit a steel bar with a winch and also an auxiliary battery under the bonnet, then you may need to upgrade your front suspension. Alloy bars are lighter and Smartbars (polymer) bars are even lighter.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LOT5krTPQmQ

OJ.

[alanymarce]

Great advice thank you. We'll be sure to take more care crossing the Sydney Harbour Bridge...


Seriously, we do plan to learn what we can about how to avoid collisions, we found that https://rac.com.au/car-motoring/info...mal-collisions has some good advice, and your advice is also appreciated. As a rule we never drive at night outside cities/towns, so this will help.



Whatever we do with a bull bar we'll have to do when we get to Australia - I have learned that they are illegal here. We would also have to take the bull bar off before shipping the vehicle home again.



We have fitted a Dobinson's upgraded suspension, with a 50 mm lift, and it works really well on some tough rocky tracks here. Should handle any additional fornt weigh OK I think. Also if we go with bars the Smartbars sound like a good solution.



The ADR situation is now clearer. We are not going for an "extreme" modification, and will mount antenna(e) and sand flag so that there are no dangerous protrusions. The plan is to have extra fuel cans on the roof rack, maybe a kit box on the roof (preferably not), and otherwise be fairly standard on the exterior. Extra water will be internal. Take the point re "interesting" additions - we have seen some "over the top" kit in Africa in particular.



We have considered a second battery (had three on our Land Cruiser in Africa) and at present are thinking of sticking with only the standard battery. It's a "smart" refrigerator, we'll be trickle-charging laptop, iPad, iPhones, and camera batteries (not all at the same time) and running the GPS and radios, but otherwise no great battery demand. Opinions on the wisdom of this welcome.



We plan to buy and install HF/VHF radio in Australia (no issues ensuring frequencies are appropriate, etc.). I'm assuming that this is a simple task? We would be looking for a small radio which we can fit into the existing dash.

[alanymarce]

Just figured out how to get an email alert when someone replies to the thread...

[geopaj]

I’m going to go against popular consensus... if you are going to travel during the day (especially avoiding dawn and dusk), I would suggest you don’t NEED a bullbar.

There are thousands of backpackers and others travelling Australia in station wagons, vans, etc without bullbars (ie Wicked Campers).

It seems a complete waste to fit a bullbar (and cut the front bumper bar), only to have to remove it again before you leave Australia.

[alanymarce]

Thanks for the additional insight.