Is an alternative to the Centre Diff Lock possible?

[Bru9]

Can the stock one be disabled & bypassed with something aftermarket? the whole setup on the pajero just sounds full of problems & not reliable when you need it. I suspect I will be in for alot of issues with mine. Like the orange light flashing in 4HLc during a small drive on gravel. Just considering if there are any options.
Or something like the centre diff that activates when in 4H.


Thanks

[Ian Sharpe]

Dont think so, its the centre diff that gives the Paj the ability to run 4h on hard surfaces, Its the goddamn complication of the 5 switches that causes all the problems. How on earth you need 5 switches is beyond me & is a complete overkill , IMO. And also the switches are just indicators & have no real control over anything.

Just for example, the Jeep transfer case NP242 that I put in my Paj (so I could run dual cases) uses (wait for it) 1 switch with 3 wires. The Jeep is identical to the Paj in operation but also has a N position.

Way too complicated & a constant source of problems.

You could if you were game enough try to rework the switches & lights & by pass the ecu (like I did to get my dash lights to work with the Jeep case) but that would probably cause more problems with the ecu because I am sure Mitsu in all its wisdom made the ecu more complicated (compared to previous models) just because they can & they figure they need to have the most comlicated 4x4 system on the market with a million switches!

It seems that if you use all the 4x4 modes on a regular basis the lights tend to be a bit more co-operative. That may be your best bet.

[pajeromack]

I don't think the ECU would like it.

From memory the 4WD setup isn't really that complicated. It has a single servo (shift actuator), five position switches and a vacuum freewheeling front diff controlled by vacuum solenoids. In addition to the switches the ECU also senses the current draw on the servo and monitors the voltage across the vacuum solenoids.

The transfer case is actually mechanically pretty reliable.

The solenoids can quit but they are easy to fix. The servo normally doesn't give much trouble. The real problem is those little position switches can play up, especially if they've been sitting still for a while. This wouldn't be a problem if they were easy to replace but Mitsubishi has mounted them in a stupid place where they are hard to get to. You can even buy aftermarket switches on ebay pretty cheaply.

[Bru9]

I don't think the ECU would like it.

From memory the 4WD setup isn't really that complicated. It has a single servo (shift actuator), five position switches and a vacuum freewheeling front diff controlled by vacuum solenoids. In addition to the switches the ECU also senses the current draw on the servo and monitors the voltage across the vacuum solenoids.

The transfer case is actually mechanically pretty reliable.

The solenoids can quit but they are easy to fix. The servo normally doesn't give much trouble. The real problem is those little position switches can play up, especially if they've been sitting still for a while. This wouldn't be a problem if they were easy to replace but Mitsubishi has mounted them in a stupid place where they are hard to get to. You can even buy aftermarket switches on ebay pretty cheaply.

I'm still not clear from my test drives, but when the switches play up is that just blinking lights or can it prevent the actual diff being locked or even cause it to disengage while in 4HLc? Once you are in low range is there any chance of the diff lock disengaging? I will have to do more test drives to see myself, only way to tell if the lock is really on when centre diff light blinks, is turning sharp and listening to the slip.

[Ian Sharpe]

I'm still not clear from my test drives, but when the switches play up is that just blinking lights or can it prevent the actual diff being locked or even cause it to disengage while in 4HLc? Once you are in low range is there any chance of the diff lock disengaging? I will have to do more test drives to see myself, only way to tell if the lock is really on when centre diff light blinks, is turning sharp and listening to the slip.

The lights are just indicators . The transfer case workings are mechanical, but I think from Gen3 there is a electronic shifter on the case. Earlier ones were pure mechanical, ie when the lever was moved , it was put into the appropriate mode.

There is also a front actuator on the right side of the diff that uses engine vacuum to engage & disengage the free wheel mechanism. That can sometimes play up & the solenoids need replacing (more goddamn switches).

[Bru9]

The lights are just indicators . The transfer case workings are mechanical, but I think from Gen3 there is a electronic shifter on the case. Earlier ones were pure mechanical, ie when the lever was moved , it was put into the appropriate mode.

There is also a front actuator on the right side of the diff that uses engine vacuum to engage & disengage the free wheel mechanism. That can sometimes play up & the solenoids need replacing (more goddamn switches).

thanks

[Bru9]

The lights are just indicators . The transfer case workings are mechanical, but I think from Gen3 there is a electronic shifter on the case. Earlier ones were pure mechanical, ie when the lever was moved , it was put into the appropriate mode.

There is also a front actuator on the right side of the diff that uses engine vacuum to engage & disengage the free wheel mechanism. That can sometimes play up & the solenoids need replacing (more goddamn switches).

I recently had my actuators replaced as centre diff would never engage usually. After that another few test drives on various surfaces mostly quiet roads in straight line. It seems 10-20% of the time i get the annoying blinking light but still the diff locks and also lowrange is achieved. I guess this is the 5 switches somewhat faulty?

[Ian Sharpe]

I recently had my actuators replaced as centre diff would never engage usually. After that another few test drives on various surfaces mostly quiet roads in straight line. It seems 10-20% of the time i get the annoying blinking light but still the diff locks and also lowrange is achieved. I guess this is the 5 switches somewhat faulty?

By actuators , do you mean the front diff free wheeling mechanism (there is only 1) or do you mean the solenoids (there are 2)? Neither of these should effect the centre diff from locking. The centre diff is mechanical & is selected by the transfer case lever. It cant be half in or half out. Its either in or not.

The lights have no bearing on where things are , they are just indicators.

By centre diff lock, you dont mean rear diff lock do you?

Which lights are actually blinking.? Is the the front green wheel lights or the middle square orange light (centre diif lock light).?

If you have a rear locker then the rear orange light , its round & is the middle light on the bottom of you wheel diagram.

Another thing that can cause flashng lights is the front diff switch (yes another switch). Its on the front diff & is operated by the front actuator moving in & out. It is an indicator only but can cause flashing lights IF the front shaft is not engaging. The only thing that controls the front diff is the vacuum soleniods. They are 2 black plastic units with hoses attached. They are up on the drivers side engine bay , on the front inner fender.

You could try getting the 5 switches replaced , but they are exxy at $125 each unless you get cheaper on Flea Bay. If you go to a dealer they reckon they cant determine which one is faulty so they replace all of them. thats just a cop out, IMO. They are also very hard to get at & the case has to be lowered.

If you are sure that you actually can get 4x4 & low range then you could leave it a bit. When I had my NP I had the flashing orange light, I replaced everything but it still was on. It went off one day by itself & worked OK until I sold the car.

[pajeromack]

I'm still not clear from my test drives, but when the switches play up is that just blinking lights or can it prevent the actual diff being locked or even cause it to disengage while in 4HLc? Once you are in low range is there any chance of the diff lock disengaging? I will have to do more test drives to see myself, only way to tell if the lock is really on when centre diff light blinks, is turning sharp and listening to the slip.

The blinking centre lights can be from a variety of causes, you have to read the error code to be sure. The ECU is very smart and will refer you to the relevant section in the service manual.

When I last had the flashing centre diff light I was stuck in 4H (unlocked). The cause ended up being a bad electrical connection to the front diff vacuum solenoids (nothing to do with the centre diff).
I was on sand at the time but luckily this wasn't a problem as the centre diff has a viscous coupling.

When you are in low range the centre diff lock must remain engaged.

I recently had my actuators replaced as centre diff would never engage usually. After that another few test drives on various surfaces mostly quiet roads in straight line. It seems 10-20% of the time i get the annoying blinking light but still the diff locks and also lowrange is achieved. I guess this is the 5 switches somewhat faulty?

There is only one transfer case actuator. Which light is blinking? The centre diff light flashing can be caused by a variety of problems. I'd recommend you check the error code.

[Bundyk]

I recently had my actuators replaced as centre diff would never engage usually. After that another few test drives on various surfaces mostly quiet roads in straight line. It seems 10-20% of the time i get the annoying blinking light but still the diff locks and also lowrange is achieved. I guess this is the 5 switches somewhat faulty?

Are all your tyres the same size and type? I.e., are they all Highway tyres or all terrains etc? Different tyre types or sizes front to rear can also cause the CDL to flash once 4x4 is engaged.

[Bru9]

By actuators , do you mean the front diff free wheeling mechanism (there is only 1) or do you mean the solenoids (there are 2)? Neither of these should effect the centre diff from locking. The centre diff is mechanical & is selected by the transfer case lever. It cant be half in or half out. Its either in or not.

The lights have no bearing on where things are , they are just indicators.

By centre diff lock, you dont mean rear diff lock do you?

Which lights are actually blinking.? Is the the front green wheel lights or the middle square orange light (centre diif lock light).?

If you have a rear locker then the rear orange light , its round & is the middle light on the bottom of you wheel diagram.

Another thing that can cause flashng lights is the front diff switch (yes another switch). Its on the front diff & is operated by the front actuator moving in & out. It is an indicator only but can cause flashing lights IF the front shaft is not engaging. The only thing that controls the front diff is the vacuum soleniods. They are 2 black plastic units with hoses attached. They are up on the drivers side engine bay , on the front inner fender.

You could try getting the 5 switches replaced , but they are exxy at $125 each unless you get cheaper on Flea Bay. If you go to a dealer they reckon they cant determine which one is faulty so they replace all of them. thats just a cop out, IMO. They are also very hard to get at & the case has to be lowered.

If you are sure that you actually can get 4x4 & low range then you could leave it a bit. When I had my NP I had the flashing orange light, I replaced everything but it still was on. It went off one day by itself & worked OK until I sold the car.

Hi & sorry for long deley in reply, as far as ai know it was the two solnoids replaced. The centre diff lock is always locked in even if lights blink. As for rear lock I don't know if I have one, but there is no button in console to activate & I never get the rear middle light at all, just middle centre.

The orange blink only seems to happen when going from 4Hto4HLc the 1st time, after that a second attempt its showing correct lights. So I guess for now Ill put up with this.

Thanks for your lengthy post.

[Bru9]

Are all your tyres the same size and type? I.e., are they all Highway tyres or all terrains etc? Different tyre types or sizes front to rear can also cause the CDL to flash once 4x4 is engaged.

All the same, maybe rough terrain or engaging up a bit of a hill?

thanks

[KiwiNTPajero]

i try to engage al the drive modes at least once a week.I havea short gravel road neaar work.It is completely normal for 4llc to be reluctant i sometimes have to try several times.It always finally enegages with a clunk and disengages with a clunk.$hlc is ussually pretty reliable sometimes have to have two goes

[Ian Sharpe]

Hi & sorry for long deley in reply, as far as ai know it was the two solnoids replaced. The centre diff lock is always locked in even if lights blink. As for rear lock I don't know if I have one, but there is no button in console to activate & I never get the rear middle light at all, just middle centre.

The orange blink only seems to happen when going from 4Hto4HLc the 1st time, after that a second attempt its showing correct lights. So I guess for now Ill put up with this.

Thanks for your lengthy post.

In my NP & NS I always found that puttting the lever into low VERY VERY SLOWLY helps to avoid problems, try that.

[basil]

When you engage into low, it is beneficial to allow the car to crep forward or backward. it makes no difference.

The engaging gears have to be able to align with the collar and your lucky if it goes in straight away. 50/50 chance that it will.

Just let it creep slowly and it should engage.
Simply a by product of the mechanism design, which is bloody robust to be honest.

Cheers,