DiD NT Fuel Starvation Thread - In tank Filter

[shawty950]

2011 DiD with 120,000k.
Couple of months ago started getting fuel starvation where fuel level in tank was under a 1/4, and only when under a 1/4 tank.

Had just changed my secondary CAV fuel filter...changed it again thinking it was a dodgy one.

Problem came back again...to the point the motor stopped on the Gateway.
Noticed that the CAV filter was dry of fuel....used the hand pump and got fuel up to the OEM and the CAV.

Got it started and limped it to the servo and filled up. Immediately no starvation issues.

Thought that it was heat related, as low fuel and with the oversupply return from the injector pump was heating the fuel up and problem happened, put cool fuel in and the problem goes away again.

SCV was the next idea....most prevalent on the forum...replaced with Roberts Hi-spec scv.

Exact scenario and problem happened again.

At this point in time, I had a bit of a "your an idiot" moment and remembered an issue I had on my FI KTM 990....where the pre-filter sock on the in tank pump got almost clogged and on low levels in the tank would starve the pump.

Theory being that the filter/gauze is mostly blocked with dirt etc, when the fuel is hot it makes the gauze material swell and become totally blocked. When cool fuel goes in, it shrinks the material a little and fuel starts flowing again.

So I get on the Russian parts/fiche site and low and behold there is an in tank filter.

So I order the part and the parts guy advised getting the rubber tank seal as well.

Access is through a plate under the right rear passenger seat, which then gives access to a little cubbyhole, that has another oblong plate that needs to be removed. (This one is an absolute pain to get out as you have to turn it 90 degrees in a very tight space)
Then you have access to the tank ring underneath that has the inlet and return pipes and pickup attatched.

Pics
This the OEM on the pickup next to the new one



Close up Old one left, New on right



This pic I have rubbed the black plastic end and you can see where it has wiped off a oily/dirty section



Closeup of crap in gauze



So anyways, this was the problem, all been good since then.

It appears to be a sludgy type residue...non metallic and not gritty.

Parts are

MR 556587 - $31.50 - Tank Pickup Filter
MN 106046 - $15.00 - Tank Pickup Gasket

Following show location on tank
The filter is the bit hanging off Part # 20

http://faq.out-club.ru/download/pajero_iv/maintenance/Service_Manual_2008_2013/2011/13/html/M113500190326200ENG.HTM

[Rovingman]

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/271587580962?nav=SEARCH

Is this the fuel filter your using?

[old Jack]

Excellent post, love this forum, 7.15 am and I have learnt something new today already.

cheers, old Jack.

[shawty950]

Hey Rovingman, effectively yes...except using the genuine delphi filters and it looks more like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FFK2141-D...item3f3219b5f2

I have the cav setup as the primary/1st filter, then the OEM as the secondary filter.

Shawty

[Rovingman]

Interesting post you put up.
Strange how it says in the description that it is not suitable for electronic fuel or CRD engines?
Considering it almost a must if travelling around in a CRD.

[bluscape]

I have the exact same symptoms.

They first replaced my lift pump but the problem remained. They then replaced my SCV but the problem still remained.

I decided to drive the vehicle a bit more and try determine exactly when it happens before I spend any more money on trial and error. It became obvious that it only happens on a nearly empty tank. In my mind, the only thing that could cause fuel starvation on a nearly empty tank is the fuel pickup or tank.

I opened my tank at the same location and have the exact same in tank filter. My filter is clean but I found a spring loaded/floating valve inside the filter. The spring in my filter is completely collapsed. Why would there be a spring if its completely collapsed?

I ordered a filter last week. I'm not going to open the new filter to verify the spring but I'm guessing the spring is supposed to be expanded to push the valve open under certain conditions (For example when the tank is near empty). Or maybe the float does not float properly anymore.

If you still have the filter I'd appreciate it if you could post some photos of your filter internals.

I will report back once I've replaced and tested my new filter. It will only arrive in 20 days.

[Trisome]

A question I have is if you have an aftermarket and a factory filter would this eliminate the need to have a hard to get to, out of sight in tank filter?

Trisome

[bluscape]

@Trisome: I'm not sure if you're asking me or the discussion in general?

If you're asking me I'd say no. The in tank filter is the first point of contact with the fuel and is inside the tank, submerged in the fuel. If its clogged or not functioning, no other filter in the fuel path will solve the problem since it must first pass through the in tank filter. In my case the filter is not clogged but seems to be faulty due to the valve inside the filter.

So I re-read your question....

The in tank filter has a valve. I'm not sure what is the purpose of the valve but I've read somewhere that is has some purpose when the vehicle is not under load or vice versa. Not certain.
I would not want to remove the in tank filter and modify the functioning of the fuel system especially when it has a valve. I guess once you know the purpose of the valve one can make a better decision.

[erad]

Bluescape replied, quoting a spring inside the strainer/filter which sits inside the tank. Could it be that the spring and flap is actually a non-return vallve which is designed to improve the priming of the fuel pump? Since a lot of the fuel line runs at a higher level than the tank and more importantly the fuel level in the tank, it makes sense to help prime the line if a foot valve is included in the system.

[Phil]

Write up I did for my NP back in 2008, different part but same location.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=7655

[GHendo]

That is very handy information. I didn’t realise my NP had a filter in the tank so I’ve taken a copy of Phil’s thread for future reference. Great stuff.

Cheers

Geoff

[bluscape]

I received my new filter. Unfortunately I forgot to take photos of the new filter for comparison but there are photos of a new filter from the initial post.

I'm not sure if my filter is clogged or if its wetting on the from diesel. I will leave it for a couple of days to see if it clears.

You can clearly see the spring loaded/floating valve. But even with the new filter te spring seems to be compressed. I wonder why there is a spring if its compressed?

Did the new filter eliminate my surging symptoms? I don't know yet. I'll run the tank low and give feedback.

Cheers.

[erad]

Bluscape: Looking at the middle photos, I would say that the filter (whilst not totally clean) is not blocked. My guess would be on the spring loaded valve.

[spool]

Can confirm this problem and the solution. I have a 2011 NT 3.2TD and the exact symptoms and my in tank strainer looked identical when replaced with the new one.

[bennyb29]

Gotta love this forum! I do!

I have the exact same issue as described on this thread. In my case, the vehicle is a 2010 NT, now at 192,500 odd kms. The issue as described happened twice, both while stopped at traffic lights on public roads. On both instances, the car just abruptly turned off while stopped at the lights. Fuel in tank was around the 1/4 mark, or slightly lower (DTE showing as 160 kms).


I had to turn on the hazard lights, and try to start the car, which refused for the first 2-3 attempts. Some pumping of the accelerator when cranking and the car starts, but I could feel there was a sense of fuel starvation. On both instances (Latest being last evening) I drove straight to the nearest fuel station and fueled up. Once done, all is well, and it feels like what happened earlier was just a bad dream.

I need to order the parts as mentioned on this thread, and give it a go myself, all while ensuring fuel doesn't drop below the 1/2 tank mark. Also found a video on YouTube which describes the process of replacing this filter, which gave me a fair idea of the work involved.