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  #11  
Old 29-11-13
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Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Can the Auto trans handle this extra power and torque?
This Auto trans was originally used in the low powered version of the Triton and Challenger overseas and earlier less powerful Pajero models, and when fitted to the HP 131 kw CRD engine, the stall ratio is increased by about 25% to "cushion" the loads on the trans internals.

How much extra power and torque, and for how long for is anyone's guess. There are plenty of Auto Challengers and Tritons 09 onwards that are running various chips and how many reports of premature trans or torque convertor failures are there and under what conditions? Tyre Diameter? Towing loads? Type of driving? Can all have an effect on longevity.

cheers, old Jack.

My thoughts exactly !
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  #12  
Old 02-12-13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Can the Auto trans handle this extra power and torque?
This Auto trans was originally used in the low powered version of the Triton and Challenger overseas and earlier less powerful Pajero models, and when fitted to the HP 131 kw CRD engine, the stall ratio is increased by about 25% to "cushion" the loads on the trans internals.

How much extra power and torque, and for how long for is anyone's guess. There are plenty of Auto Challengers and Tritons 09 onwards that are running various chips and how many reports of premature trans or torque convertor failures are there and under what conditions? Tyre Diameter? Towing loads? Type of driving? Can all have an effect on longevity.

cheers, old Jack.
I don't know old jack- since your telling this story- exactly how many reports of torque convertor failures have you seen

I'm running a 4 speed auto in my ML have had 32" tyres from day one and a chip in since around 20,000kms ( now have 130,000) also run larger tyres when offroading

In those kms are around 40,000kms of towing 2.2 tonne

I would be a prime candidate for problems based on the above.

FYI the ML makes 347kw of torque in stock form so the same as the MN in detuned auto mode so a fair comparison

I cannot remember a single instance of this problem listed here or on the newtriton forum.


another question- does the ML triton benifit from the additional stall ratio feature?
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  #13  
Old 02-12-13
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I have an auto and, as folks know, i have a lot of testing done on mine. I have no problems with the auto.

I do however change the auto oil every 20000 kms which I think we all should do. The manufacturers are all too often interested in the demarcation line of cost of ownership and mechanical sympathy. So we see often the maintenance periods stretched to silly lengths: like 15000 kms for engine oil change and 60000 kms for tranny oil change. Oil is the life blood, its not expensive to change so I do them regularly.
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  #14  
Old 06-03-14
260DET 260DET is offline
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What I had in mind was to remove the factory power restriction on the auto engine, nothing more, nothing less. Obviously the usual chip does not do that so we are back to the question in my original post.
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  #15  
Old 07-03-14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260DET View Post
What I had in mind was to remove the factory power restriction on the auto engine, nothing more, nothing less. Obviously the usual chip does not do that so we are back to the question in my original post.
Hi Richard,

My current belief is that if the engine is chipped and provides extra power and torque then the torque convertor will spend more time unlocked in 4th and 5th (slipping) and this will negate some or most of the power and torque gains from chipping the engine. I suspect an AT ECU reprogram is what is needed or a change to a heavy duty TC and valve kit if you want to decrease the amount of slip of the TC. You maybe able to decrease the stall ratio of the TC when going to a HD TC but this will come at the expense of smooth gear changes and at easy start offs at high loads on steep inclines. For your 2wd Challenger that is towing your race car, I suspect that changing the rear diff ratio from 3.917 to a 4.1:1 or 4.3:1 will be of greater benefit for the cash spent. Tritons around 2009 to 2011 had various diff ratios, other option is to decrease tyre diameter from 265/70-16 776mm diameter to 245/70-16 754mm diameter, this will improve actual torque at rear wheels and TC will lockup earlier and stay locked up longer.

cheers, old Jack.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-14
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Good points as usual old Jack, your suggested alternatives would probably make no difference to fuel consumption too. But I wonder if the change in speed readings would effect the management systems operations and if the speedo and odometer readings could be corrected.

Might transfer this discussion to the PB forum, unless there is a thread there already on it.
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  #17  
Old 08-03-14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260DET View Post
Good points as usual old Jack, your suggested alternatives would probably make no difference to fuel consumption too. But I wonder if the change in speed readings would effect the management systems operations and if the speedo and odometer readings could be corrected.

Might transfer this discussion to the PB forum, unless there is a thread there already on it.
Any reduction in gearing whether by a decrease in tyre diameter or by fitting a lower ratio diff will increase torque at wheels and give you more "pulling power" but this will also result in an increase in the speedo error. I have seen in the WS Manual different numbered toothed speedo gears and this would assist in the speedo correction. A dash mounted GPS will do the same also. I believe the Auto Challenger is over-geared and this combined with the high slip torque convertor and poorly programmed AT ECU contribute to the high fuel consumption compared to the manual trans Challenger so with a reduction in gearing I would expect an improvement in fuel economy! A change to 245/70-16 size tyres will reduce ground clearance by 12 or 13 mm so it is not a good option for those with 4wds that do go off road, and to change diff ratios we also have 2 diff centres to change $$$.

I know there are many Auto PB Challengers and MN Tritons that are running "chips" or "re-Maps" and have no problems, but I suspect the problems will not show up until after 160,000 + kms and this will depend on how hard the engine and driveline have been worked. The TC is the "mechanical fuse" and this will fail prematurely if overloaded or trans is not serviced. There is evidence of this in the earlier model Pajeros that also run this Jatco auto box ( search forum posts). Upgrading to a HD TC will ensure TC lasts longer but this will be at the expense of the internal gears of the gearbox.
What I would like to see is a Challenger with the engine and auto trans from the NW Pajero but I suspect the increase in weight would exceed the front axle limits so this would also need to be up graded.

cheers, old Jack.
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  #18  
Old 08-03-14
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So there are alternative speed input gears, that's good to know. Find out which model Triton has the smaller wheels to identify the right gear part number and go from there. Beauty

A bit of a loss in ride height would be OK for my use so smaller Triton wheels sound like the cheapest option. Wonder if a Triton owner would want to swap, hmmmm.
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  #19  
Old 08-03-14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260DET View Post
So there are alternative speed input gears, that's good to know. Find out which model Triton has the smaller wheels to identify the right gear part number and go from there. Beauty

A bit of a loss in ride height would be OK for my use so smaller Triton wheels sound like the cheapest option. Wonder if a Triton owner would want to swap, hmmmm.
Gee I'll be happy to swap my triton wheels and tyres
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  #20  
Old 08-03-14
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235/60/16

will be hard not to break traction ;-)
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