MY2012 MANUAL DiD NW with DPF symptoms?

[pajflareo]

I guess as the the title states, I had a weird experience yesterday afternoon.

I should say I have only had this car 1 month. Its a manual NW Pajero with 70,000km. I've only done 1,000km so I'm only at the start of my second tank - maybe 50kms into it.

Last tank I did about 200-300km of 100km/h+ driving, but I also do a fair few short trips every week.

Car is entirely stock it seems and usually blows no noticeable smoke.

Was driving at about 60km/h for 10 minutes and then hit a section of road where I hit 70km/h. As I hit 70km/h, almost immediately, I noticed grey/black smoke coming from my vehicle. In significant enough quantities to see the smoke at 70km/h during daylight through the rear-view.

Car was still driving fine and power felt normal. Cars behind me were flashing their lights.

I eased off the gas and pulled off the main road. Engine sounded fine, but for a split second (and I mean a split second) I heard a weird almost metallic clatter? My initial thought was that perhaps the turbo was chewing itself but in all honesty I could have ran over a can or something on the road.

Anyway pulled over and it wasn't very smokey at idle, but if I gave it a rev and it was pouring out this grey/black smoke enough to have a plume of, albeit faint, smoke around the whole car.

Ran the torque app, boost was fine and a scan for codes revealed nothing. Unfortunately as the car is new to me I hadn't set up the correct sensors for EGT/CAT temps. Didn't turn the car off. Idled for about 2 minutes and it was still smoking when I revved it.

Because it was smokey I put the windows up and put the AC on. Naturally the idle became higher and surprisingly all smokiness immediately stopped. Revving the car produced no smoke at all. Turned the AC off and revved it and again it was not smokey. Drove home fine with no smokiness. Drove it this morning and it was fine.

Basically I had all the symptoms of a DPF burn.

Anyway not sure if anyone has had any experience with something like this.

I'm sure the manifold is getting gunky, so I'll be installing the resistor mod next week and a catch can and taking the car to have the manifold taken off and cleaned and I suppose check the valves at the same time and top timing chain guide.

Is there anything else that the mechanic should be looking at when taken the manifold off?

[spot01]

As you are probably aware, the good news is your car does not have a DPF.


They do sound a bit different when they are doing an injector relearn. Not unknown to see a bit of smoke sometimes.



Check the turbo pipes are good & tight. Check oil level isn't too high, in case an injector is leaking. If unsure when fuel filter was last changed, I'd change it.



I wonder if is has been used for short trips or lots of cold starts at a dealer's yard? Perhaps try a diesel injector cleaner? Could also be old or dirty fuel - top it up again with premium diesel.


Then see if it does it again before doing too much to it.



These cars don't have an issue with the top guide, but check the MMAL website to ensure all recalls have been done, particularly the timing chain tensioner.

[erad]

Is the vehicle under warranty?A dealers presumably because it is probably out of MMAL warranty. IF there is a warranty associated with this car, report the incident to the dealer IN WRITING. Even if it doesn't ha[[en again, at least there is a report NOW.

As for the clatter, I cannot think of anything minor (ie not a piece of turbo going through the engine) which would do this. Maybe some crappy fuel but that would be consistently there if that was the case. Maybe a bit of water? Keep a check on the coolant levels (including the radiator itself when the engine is cold).

I cannot think of anything which would cause lots of smoke unless it came through the injectors. What colour was the smoke? If it was blue, then you potentially have serious trouble coming up. It is probably a piece of crud from they intake manifold going through the engine and hopefully all that is gone now. As said above, the NW, especially the manual model, does not have a DPF. As above, probably the car was used for short trips and giving it a blast on the highway cleaned out the air system.

How much fuel did it take to fill up. 950 km form a tank must have been getting near empty and maybe you picked up some crud from the tank? As above, try using some diesel fuel conditioner and maybe replace the fuel filter as well.

As for the timing chain. there was a recall on this model to replace or at least check the timing chain guide (but not the top guide). Verify that that recall was done (also both airbags).

[spot01]

Further to Erad's point, how low was the tank when it smoked?

[old Jack]

I would start by cleaning the Mass Air Flow sensor.

OJ.

[pajflareo]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm grateful for the list of jobs I now have!

I am aware there is no DPF on this model so thats why I was so concerned. Also private sale, no dealer so I'm on my own here.

As for the colour of the smoke, very much a grey/black. Not blue in the slightest. I was only about 50km into a fresh tank. I would say I ran the tank down significantly as it took 74L.

Having checked the car this afternoon I can say Coolant is fine in both the radiator and overflow.

Oil level appears within limits, but it smells a little like diesel. It would suggest to me that whatever happened yesterday was injector related and some of the excess fuel has wound up in the sump - I dont think a re-learn would have caused this?

Still strange though, car starts and runs perfectly and quietly, and fuel consumption for mixed but mostly urban driving is sub 10L.

Plan of attack is;
1.Top up with Fresh premium diesel from another servo (not Mobil diesel)
2.Treat the fuel with injector cleaner
3.Change the fuel/air filters and inspect the drained fuel.
4.Clean MAF
5.Change the oil

Given the above schedule of work, I assume it is relatively safe to drive the car and just monitor the level and condition of the oil?

[spot01]

What gear were you in as you went up to 70 when it happened? If 5th, it may have simply overfuelled briefly?



Do you know it's service history re valve adjustments? The handbook has a separate page to record fuel pipe removals each time the valves are done, although not all mechanics or dealers record it correctly. If it was done at a dealer, they should be able to look up it's history.

If the seals for the fuel pipes are not replaced each time, they may not seal correctly due to very high pressures, leading to fuel leaking into the oil (but unsure if it would cause smoke as in your case).
Even with new seals, my dealer runs a pressure test to ensure they are not leaking after removal.


Remember to check the tensioner recall.

[DibbyDibbyDJ]

Im not familiar with this torque app. Can it show fuel pressure? My first thought was a sticky suction control valve. Doesnt always give a fault code either.


You could always run it on neat injector cleaner. Block off the return pipe and put the pipe out of the fuel filter directly into injector cleaner and run it till it stops. Could take 20 mins or so to stop, but it has worked for me before.


If you have access to scan tool, you can always do a fuel leak test. This will run a program to ramp up the fuel pressure in stages. We use it every time a pipe is undone or replaced. it also has the effect of cleaning any carbon off the injector nozzles as well as cleaning SCV

[twisted32]

What gear were you in as you went up to 70 when it happened? If 5th, it may have simply overfuelled briefly?



Do you know it's service history re valve adjustments? The handbook has a separate page to record fuel pipe removals each time the valves are done, although not all mechanics or dealers record it correctly. If it was done at a dealer, they should be able to look up it's history.

If the seals for the fuel pipes are not replaced each time, they may not seal correctly due to very high pressures, leading to fuel leaking into the oil (but unsure if it would cause smoke as in your case).
Even with new seals, my dealer runs a pressure test to ensure they are not leaking after removal.


Remember to check the tensioner recall.

There are no fuel seals to replace when doing valve clearances, only oil seals in the rocker cover.
The fuel pipes are flared fittings (metal on metal) and can leak into the sump if not sealed correctly, this is why it is recommended for a 5 torque cycle life.

[spot01]

There are no fuel seals to replace when doing valve clearances, only oil seals in the rocker cover.
The fuel pipes are flared fittings (metal on metal) and can leak into the sump if not sealed correctly, this is why it is recommended for a 5 torque cycle life.

Thanks - I stand corrected.

[pajflareo]

So borrowed a car went to supercheap and repco, did the run around, got everything I needed except an oil filter.

I then had to move my car to my mates house to do the oil change. I let the car Warm up for a while given I was nervous about the integrity of the oil. On the way over, after about 5 minutes of driving it did it again, except this time with a little more clattering that would occur when the revs got over 2,000

Pulled over immediately and turned it off. Started it and it was idling well and the smoke and clattering stopped. Luckily it was all down hill to when I needed to be so I let it idle in neutral and got it to where I could change the oil.

I drained 15L of an oil and diesel mix.

So I put in the new oil, changed the fuel filter and cleaned the MAF sensor. It started and seemed to run fine and quieter.

I then ran a bottle of liqui moly purge plus through it. At the end the remaining liqui moly didn't look too dirty.

So its driving and sounds okay now. I'm going to see how quickly the diesel is getting bank into the sump but seemed fine after a short drive. I'll be organising to drop it to a mechanic on Monday I think.

[spot01]

15L - wow - it should only drain about 9L (as the filter keeps some in it) - there is a serious leak from the fuel rails or injectors by the sound of it!


As you couldn't replace the filter, there will still be some contaminated oil in the system (plus any further addition if it is driven, which I wouldn't in case further damage occurs), it will need a new filter & another oil change before it is run again. Hopefully it hasn't caused any damage. I would get it towed to the mechanic. If you are in the NRMA, they might cover the tow cost? I would not be driving it.

[dhula]

As Spot said, get it towed to someone that can fix it. I strongly recomend you do not drive it any further and here is why;

Smoky + clattering + deso in oil (15 liters drained) = likely leaking injector pipe (or some other reason the sump is filling with Deso but injector pipe is most likely cause) = likely to runaway sooner or later if you keep driving it without getting it seen to and fixed.

Read my experience here --> click here

[aussieintas]

Agree with the above about needing further investigation......do not continue driving........and needing new oil and filter once solved.

Have you checked the tightness of the injector pipes where they go through the rocker cover as if they are lose would supply diesel into the oil. Be mindful of them being previously cross threaded.

Some pics below of the pipes inyo the rocker cover for reference. These pics are from the online tech manual found on this site which is well worth saving as a bookmark for future refrence. For noe a link below to the manual.

http://faq.out-club.ru/download/pajero_iv/maintenance/Service_Manual_2008_2013/2012/index_M1.htm

[pajflareo]

Thanks again everyone. The wealth of information available here is amazing.

Yes, as suggested I am aware that the oil will have to go and I'm not driving the car - given the amount of diesel in the oil.

I believe the clattering and probably the smoke was the engine running terrible as it started to draw oil/diesel mix through the turbo seals, as the oil/diesel mix was less viscous than normal, as you would expect. Probably pretty lucky it didn't run away on me.

Dhula I read your post and the rest of the thread. Gives me some hope there isn't any major damage to the internals thus far. I did not notice any metal in the oil I drained.

No comprehensive service history with this one, so I am unaware of the status of the injector pipes removals.

What I do know as that it was serviced by a mechanic on the last occasion at 67,500km. I cut open the fuel filter and it was clean suggesting it was changed at that point. I needed vice grips to get the water sensor off the filter, so the mechanic may have been in the habit of over tightening.