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Lockup-mate vs Big Red

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  • nj swb
    Resident
    • Jun 2007
    • 7332
    • Adelaide

    Lockup-mate vs Big Red

    As posted elsewhere, I recently crossed the Simpson with old Jack and Pajero 12. As for most of us, one of the highlights of a Simpson crossing is the opportunity to tackle the iconic Big Red sand dune on the eastern edge of the desert.

    These days, there are multiple tracks on the western (desert) side - some are undoubtedly easier than others, such as the southern most "chicken track", that I think doesn't really count.

    When we approached about midday on a Friday, there were a group of vehicles on top of the dune, right next to one of the middle tracks, so I elected to tackle the next track to the north - and failed on my first attempt. The spectators suggested I tackle the track next to them, as it was "easier" - but I wasn't ready to accept defeat.

    I don't recall what I did differently on my second attempt - possibly approached on a slightly different line, to avoid one of the bumps at the bottom. But I made it further, but still stopped. The spectators offered to push me the rest of the way (for a fee, of course ), but I wasn't ready to accept defeat that easily. I tried to reverse back, but the Paj seemed reluctant to move, so I engaged low range and rear diff lock. I then did a series of back & forward that enabled me to inch a little further forward each time, until I finally climbed up and over, onto the top of the dune. Success, but hardly in a convincing manner.

    Thinking about it a little, I was aware that I had reached 3rd gear at the bottom, but lost momentum on the way up the dune, and had to change back to 2nd. In 2nd, lockup-mate was off, so I was at high revs, with large slip in the torque converter. This slip was sapping power, and reducing road speed (relative to engine speed). So what would happen if I ensured the torque converter was locked in 2nd?

    A quick re-program, and I had to abort my next run because I forgot to turn the ASC off.

    Next run, I hit sufficient speed for the torque converter to lock in 2nd, then floored the loud pedal. The engine was happy to rev to peak power, and without slip in the torque converter, the vehicle was travelling faster, with more power hitting the ground. The mighty Pajero sailed over the top with ease! Thanks to lockup-mate.

    It all makes perfect sense when I think about it. Eliminate the slip, don't waste power, and achieve a higher wheel speed at any given engine speed. Lockup-mate was always going to improve the climb, but I had no idea how much difference it would make.

    An awesome product.

    This is not a paid advertorial.
    NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

    Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

    Scorpro Explorer Box
  • NTBenny
    Senior Member
    • May 2017
    • 365
    • Newcastle

    #2
    2011 NT Pajero Platinum, DCS 80AH Extreme Battery, Stedi 8.5" LED driving lights, Bushskinz side steps & bash plates, Provent 200, Auto-mate TC lockup, Derale fan forced trans cooler, custom 3inch exhaust, JT intercooler, Bilstein + Lovells 2 inch lift, Airbag Man bags, DBA slotted rotors, braided brake lines, diff+gearbox+transfer breathers, Redarc boost & EGT gauge, Tuned by TME 141rwkw 598nm.

    Comment

    • pb4x2
      Member
      • May 2015
      • 131
      • Deception Bay Qld 4508

      #3
      auto-mate

      Good news that you all returned safely without any dramas and lock-up mate does all that it was intended to do. But now that you're back from playing in the desert OJ might be able to spend some time with Malcolm working on the auto-mate we are all holding our breath for.That is my attempt at humour I realize development and testing takes time.
      2012 PB Challenger 4x2 auto

      30mm Whiteline Front Sway Bar / SPV Delete / Catch can / Auto-mate / Lowered Front 35mm Rear 50mm / Side Steps Lowered 20mm / Rear Spoiler / Sony Double DIN xav-ax1000 / Rear Camera / All the Chrome bits

      Comment

      • littleriver
        Valued Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 3339
        • Queensland

        #4
        Well done ..
        2012 PB Challenger LS (Manual) Safari Snorkel, OZtec shocks front & rear with King Springs (lift 2 inch) , 22 inch light bar on ECB Nudge bar, roof racks & basket, Bridgestone Duelers 697 LT A/T (116S), Uniden Dash cam, Oricom 2 way radio 80 channel, Ipod connected via glove box usb, Waeco cf50, Garmin gps (with topo), Opticoat + paint protection, Nilrust proofing, Roosystems Ecu Remap

        Comment

        • GM...
          Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 72
          • Gold Coast

          #5
          Mmmm!!!, i remember that hill, broke a CV on the run up, hit a dip and bang. Thats after towing a mate 280 odd k's through the hay river track and over a 100 odd sand dunes.
          98 NL Pajero, 3.2 Common rail Diesel, Auto with some work.

          Comment

          • m_and_m
            Valued Member
            • Mar 2010
            • 1811
            • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

            #6
            This is the feedback I like to read about. There are so many different ways lockup-mate can improve driving...and I hadn't thought about this one. An increase in power to the wheels can make a big difference.
            2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
            2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
            Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

            Comment

            • KiwiNTPajero
              Valued Member
              • Aug 2014
              • 1012
              • Wellington,New Zealand

              #7
              so how does lock mate differ from being in low range in 2nd, sport mode ,with an unmodified NT?
              2009 NT GLS(NZ) diesel LWB auto
              BFG AT,Rhino Rack Vortex Bars,Foxwing Eco Awning,BUSHSKINZ I/C, sump guards and steps


              "do not check the button for faster communication, this will throw a wobbly with some dongles"

              Comment

              • nj swb
                Resident
                • Jun 2007
                • 7332
                • Adelaide

                #8
                Originally posted by KiwiNTPajero View Post
                so how does lock mate differ from being in low range in 2nd, sport mode ,with an unmodified NT?
                Sorry Kiwi, I'm not sure I understand your question.

                When I was "charging" the dunes, I was in high range - the last time I used full throttle in low range on sand, it didn't end well for me.

                The climb on which we were playing was deep & loose sand - our tyres couldn't obtain enough traction to crawl up the dune (where low range would help by producing masses of torque at the wheels) so we needed momentum to carry us to the top.

                With a long enough run-up it probably would be possible to hit a high enough speed to simply coast over the top, but there are bumps at the bottom. Pajero12 had all 4 wheels off the ground a couple of times, so I doubt faster was an option for our vehicles. So we needed a combination of sufficient momentum at the bottom, and sufficient power to reduce momentum loss before we reached the top.

                I wasn't paying close attention, but I think I was only travelling between 60 & 70 at the bottom on my final runs. A stock Pajero could probably achieve those speeds in low range, and have the factory ECU lock the torque converter, but with my reduction gears, peak power in low range 5th is about 60km/h - and I'm not real keen on using peak power in low range.

                So, for me, with my phobias (phobiae? ), I'm limited to high range for such shenanigans - and the factory ECU won't lock the torque converter in 2nd, so I would be stuck with power-sapping, speed-limiting slip, with which I initially struggled to conquer the climb. With lockup-mate (appropriately configured to lock, and stay locked, in 2nd gear), more of my engine's peak power made it through the transmission, and hit the sand at a higher speed.

                More power at a higher speed = better dune climbing.

                NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

                Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

                Scorpro Explorer Box

                Comment

                • KiwiNTPajero
                  Valued Member
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 1012
                  • Wellington,New Zealand

                  #9
                  Originally posted by nj swb View Post
                  Sorry Kiwi, I'm not sure I understand your question.

                  When I was "charging" the dunes, I was in high range - the last time I used full throttle in low range on sand, it didn't end well for me.

                  The climb on which we were playing was deep & loose sand - our tyres couldn't obtain enough traction to crawl up the dune (where low range would help by producing masses of torque at the wheels) so we needed momentum to carry us to the top.

                  With a long enough run-up it probably would be possible to hit a high enough speed to simply coast over the top, but there are bumps at the bottom. Pajero12 had all 4 wheels off the ground a couple of times, so I doubt faster was an option for our vehicles. So we needed a combination of sufficient momentum at the bottom, and sufficient power to reduce momentum loss before we reached the top.

                  I wasn't paying close attention, but I think I was only travelling between 60 & 70 at the bottom on my final runs. A stock Pajero could probably achieve those speeds in low range, and have the factory ECU lock the torque converter, but with my reduction gears, peak power in low range 5th is about 60km/h - and I'm not real keen on using peak power in low range.

                  So, for me, with my phobias (phobiae? ), I'm limited to high range for such shenanigans - and the factory ECU won't lock the torque converter in 2nd, so I would be stuck with power-sapping, speed-limiting slip, with which I initially struggled to conquer the climb. With lockup-mate (appropriately configured to lock, and stay locked, in 2nd gear), more of my engine's peak power made it through the transmission, and hit the sand at a higher speed.

                  More power at a higher speed = better dune climbing.

                  https://youtu.be/sbD_ZCUnyVU
                  soory at one point you said you were in low range so i assumed you were in 2nd low.So a std NT in sports mode is not locked up in second
                  2009 NT GLS(NZ) diesel LWB auto
                  BFG AT,Rhino Rack Vortex Bars,Foxwing Eco Awning,BUSHSKINZ I/C, sump guards and steps


                  "do not check the button for faster communication, this will throw a wobbly with some dongles"

                  Comment

                  • m_and_m
                    Valued Member
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 1811
                    • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                    #10
                    Originally posted by nj swb View Post
                    More power at a higher speed = better dune climbing.

                    https://youtu.be/sbD_ZCUnyVU
                    Damn I love that video. How cool under such pressure.
                    2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                    2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                    Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                    Comment

                    • m_and_m
                      Valued Member
                      • Mar 2010
                      • 1811
                      • Tea Tree Gully, Adelaide

                      #11
                      Originally posted by KiwiNTPajero View Post
                      soory at one point you said you were in low range so i assumed you were in 2nd low.So a std NT in sports mode is not locked up in second
                      Correct. The standard NT-NX does not lock in 2nd, and will only lock in 3rd when around 3000rpm and pushing hard. Using lockup-mate it will lock easily in 2nd and 3rd.
                      I'm not sure if the factory program even locks at all in low range...I must test that one day.
                      2016 NX Exceed 3.2 DiD, BullBar | 2" OME lift | Safari snorkel | UHF | Towbar | Tow pro elite ECB | Full Bushskinz UBP and side steps | HID highbeam upgrade | 9" LED spots | 100Ahr Aux. Battery | HPD Oil catch can | Flappy Paddles | auto-matePRO
                      2016 LC200 Sahara V8 Diesel,Lots of Mods too
                      Checkout our products at MM4x4 http://www.mm4x4.com.au auto-mate and lockup-mate for Mitsubishi's and Toyota's

                      Comment

                      • KiwiNTPajero
                        Valued Member
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1012
                        • Wellington,New Zealand

                        #12
                        Originally posted by m_and_m View Post
                        Correct. The standard NT-NX does not lock in 2nd, and will only lock in 3rd when around 3000rpm and pushing hard. Using lockup-mate it will lock easily in 2nd and 3rd.
                        I'm not sure if the factory program even locks at all in low range...I must test that one day.
                        ahhh when i talk locked i normally am thinking if it is locked up ON OVERUN.....
                        2009 NT GLS(NZ) diesel LWB auto
                        BFG AT,Rhino Rack Vortex Bars,Foxwing Eco Awning,BUSHSKINZ I/C, sump guards and steps


                        "do not check the button for faster communication, this will throw a wobbly with some dongles"

                        Comment

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