Grease & Oil Change

[simonc]

Planning to give the Paj (NK 2.8 TD) its second oil change since I've had it (Mitsi dealer did the first one - wasn't too happy with the service and price - plus they overfilled the oil).

Was after some advice on the following:

- Does the sump plug gasket on the 4M40 need to be replaced at each oil change (When I used to change the oil in my old gemini I don't remember ever changing a gasket)?

- Looking to also top up the grease - I was down at super cheap auto earlier today and they had two types of grease - They were both NLGI no.2 type grease, but one had 3% moly(something) and was branded as a long life grease - Is the moly grease ok to use on the Paj?

- I was planning to use Penrite HPR Diesel 15 oil - has anyone used this with the 4M40T? Strange in that it is rated at 15W-50 but the label on it states it can be used where 15W-40 has been recommended (Mitsi used a 15W-40 Mobil oil when they did the change)

Thanks for reading my post - any advice is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Simon

[Bernoulli]

I've been changing the oil on my cars for nearly 50 years. I've never changed the drain plug gasket. I did buy a Toyota wagon when I lived in England - It had a FSH and the previous owner had been charged for a gasket every oil change.

I use Moly EP grease for everything. Moly is Molybdenum Disulfide, a product that bonds to the outer metal layer. It keeps things slick to very high temperatures.

I have no opinion on the oil. I use Magnatec - seems to work okay.

[joshua.alexander]

Mate i change my 4m40t every 5000kms, i make oil companys rich, oil is oil, you get enthusiast that say to use specific brands etc, it all comes down to the grade of oil, i live near bathurst (it snows) i replace my glowplugs every 12 months, i use 15w40, i use shell helix deisel oil, but my last oil change was the penrite oil u are talking about, mate its all good, and those cheap brands of oil like repco, IGA, super cheap etc... they all come from big brands anyway like pennzoil, shell etc.... oil is oil just so long as u change it at the right intervals and use the right grade u will be fine

[schnitzel]

Mate i change my 4m40t every 5000kms, i make oil companys rich, oil is oil, you get enthusiast that say to use specific brands etc, it all comes down to the grade of oil, i live near bathurst (it snows) i replace my glowplugs every 12 months, i use 15w40, i use shell helix deisel oil, but my last oil change was the penrite oil u are talking about, mate its all good, and those cheap brands of oil like repco, IGA, super cheap etc... they all come from big brands anyway like pennzoil, shell etc.... oil is oil just so long as u change it at the right intervals and use the right grade u will be fine

Sorry to disagree with you hare but you are most definetly wrong and whilst it is not as critical in a gen 2, go any newer and you will be in for expensive repairs.
The grade of oil as you call it is half of the story, you also need to make sure it meets the API and JASO ratings.
The 4m40 t requires a JASO DH 1 rating in a 15 w 40 viscosity specification and an API rating of CH or above.

DO a search on this forum it has been explained in great detail before.
here is a sample one

http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=10192

As for the cheap oils you get what you pay for, a lot of the supermarket and no name brands are in fact made from recycled oil and often have an API rating of CD or less , and none meet the JASO rating., al ot are also made from theoil whih is not up to the specifiation of the original manufacturer,so is downgrade and onsold, appearing on the shelves as cheap oil.


in answer to the original question HPR Diesel 15 is suitable, HPR 15 is not.

[joshua.alexander]

well ok i am not going to get to technical here, to me oil is oil and i have not herd of ANYONE having expensive repairs due to using the wrong oil! no such thing, in the end it all comes from the ground anyway. i dont want to get into to much detail here but i am only just sharing my knowledge and experience just like you are.

[schnitzel]

well ok i am not going to get to technical here, to me oil is oil and i have not herd of ANYONE having expensive repairs due to using the wrong oil! no such thing, in the end it all comes from the ground anyway. i dont want to get into to much detail here but i am only just sharing my knowledge and experience just like you are.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend but I sell the stuff for a living and I see expensive repairs frequently because people use the wrong oil, or grease or trans fluid because they believe they are all the same. Unfortuneatly they are not, and is getting more critical every day.


Whilst as I said is not as critical on a gen 2 as a newer vehicle it is still important. I would also note penrite is not the brand I sell.


How many here know that bentone based grease and lithim based grease dont mix.,and both are rated as NLG i 2, Would bet most dont even know they exist and are different. this doesnt cause an immeadiate failure rather a drastic shortening of life in a component caused by increased wear brought about by ths incompatibility.

Same goes for oil, the 4m40 is a high soot motor which requires an oil which can hold a high level of soot in suspension. use the wrong oil and this soot builds up in the galleries and the sump and then causes increased engine wear. Not an immeadiate failure rather a long term shortening of life of the engine which people dont attribute to the wrong oil, even though it is the actual cause of the problem.

[joshua.alexander]

Ok well you have made you point, you didnt offend me, but soot wouldnt instantly build up in inside the engine, you would have to have the same engine oil for more then 20,000kms, i always change mine every 5000kms not even relising the different grades, numbers, i have never really worried about it, i just go with what the back of the bottle says, weather it is suitable for my truck, and i am sure many other people on this forum would agree with me and do the same thing, walk into a shop and buy your oil with out worryan what type of oil it is, i mean wat is lithim based and bentone, does anyone on this forum think about that stuff when they do an oil change i have never even herd about it, i dont even think i have ever seen those words on a bottle.

[simonc]

Thanks guys for the advice.

I didn't intend to start a debate - but I probably should have realised as the topic of oil is a hotly debated topic judging by past threads.

Schnitzel, apart from the HPR Diesel 15, are there any other oils that you would recommend for the 4M40T?

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers,

Simon

[joshua.alexander]

i have been using shell helix diesel and have had no dramas with it

[peejay68au]

apart from the HPR Diesel 15, are there any other oils that you would recommend for the 4M40T?

I've used in no particular order. Pennzoil Long Life Diamond, Valvoline Super Diesel, Shell Helix Diesel (now called HX5 Diesel), Gulf Western Top Dog XDO, Penrite HPR 15 Diesel, and currently running Caltex Delo 400.

Of this none were a bad oil, the Shell seemed more rattlely than the others, but did seem to give the bum dyno good messages, a little easier revving. The Top Dog was surprisingly good for the price, no dramas as such other than it was a tad runnier off the dipstick if you can understand what I mean. The Penrite no problems. The Super Diesel was a good oil I felt, not rattlely not watery. The Pennzoil Long Life Diamond is probably my preferred choice. The motor seemed sweet with it in. The Delo 400 is probably the best spec oil for the 4m40, I can't remember the Penrite specs, and it's too cold and dark to trudge up the shed to look at the bottle, but being semi synthetic would be a close call imo. Delo is as far as I've determined to be of synthetic properties without being synthetic per sa, much like the Castrol oils that are marketed as being synthetic but are not synthetic at all, just really well refined.

[Le Le]

Got a petrol Pajero, but my Toyota has a 2LT diesel engine - they're considered a very "dirty" engine, with older mech (not EFI) injection - I think it is more important to change the oil often, rather than go to the nth degree selecting which oil... So if you're changing oil every 5K kms (I do on the diesel - get the soot outta there!) and filter every 10K, it's hard to justify an expensive, or synthetic oil. Keep the interval short, use a "reasonable" oil, and you'll be fine.

Moly grease should not be used on applications where roller or ball bearings are present (this includes uni joints - with their needle rollers). The moly can cause the rollers to "slide" rather than "roll"... Flat spots and knackered bearings are the result (eventually).

The moly is an additive which prevents the grease being "squeezed" out under high pressure applications - generally called up in automotive for ball joints and CV's...

Don't know if it's actually better than nothing for uni's, and I've only got one grease gun - with moly in it...

Cheers.

[Bernoulli]

Moly grease should not be used on applications where roller or ball bearings are present (this includes uni joints - with their needle rollers). The moly can cause the rollers to "slide" rather than "roll"... Flat spots and knackered bearings are the result (eventually).

My Gen1 is approaching 400,000K. Nothing but MolyEP grease - no problems anywhere yet - including the universal joints.

[simonc]

The Delo 400 is probably the best spec oil for the 4m40

I've had a look at the data sheet for the delo 400 oil, and I have to agree that on paper it looks like it is a good match for the 4m40 (based on my limited knowledge of oil, and what Schnitzel stated earlier regarding the 4m40 requiring an oil that can cope with large amounts of soot).

Only problem - it seems pretty hard to get a hold of - unless one wants to pay the jacked up prices at a Caltex servo.

Thanks again for all the advice - although I'm still a little confused about the Moly grease - there seems to be an understanding that this shouldn't be used where ball/roller bearings are present (such as uni-joints) - but there is also a large contingent which have used Moly in these areas without issue.....Might just play it safe and not use Moly - but grease up more regularly.

Cheers,

Simon

[peejay68au]

Only problem - it seems pretty hard to get a hold of - unless one wants to pay the jacked up prices at a Caltex servo.

Never go near a caltex servo for oil, they will bend you over with the price, 5l at the servo is something like $45. I get mine from the caltex distributor in coffs. Much cheaper, find out if you have a distributor where you are. Here if I go on a wednesday or a friday it's cheaper. I paid $98.60 for a 20l drum. 2 years ago I could get it from the general store in glenreagh for $28.75 for 5l, the caltex servo was $42.

[schnitzel]

I've had a look at the data sheet for the delo 400 oil, and I have to agree that on paper it looks like it is a good match for the 4m40 (based on my limited knowledge of oil, and what Schnitzel stated earlier regarding the 4m40 requiring an oil that can cope with large amounts of soot).

Only problem - it seems pretty hard to get a hold of - unless one wants to pay the jacked up prices at a Caltex servo.

Thanks again for all the advice - although I'm still a little confused about the Moly grease - there seems to be an understanding that this shouldn't be used where ball/roller bearings are present (such as uni-joints) - but there is also a large contingent which have used Moly in these areas without issue.....Might just play it safe and not use Moly - but grease up more regularly.

Cheers,

Simon

Sorry been busy for a couple of days as am starting to get the delica ready for a trip to Fraser island in a couple of weeks. ( pajero is still in bits and i can''t sleep in it)

Given I sell castrol I would recommend the Tection J Max or BP vanellus Multifleet for a 4m40, Tection HD and RX Super are also suitable ( Castrol is a division of BP). In caltex I believe the delo 400 is suitable.

Rather than buy at your local servo track down your nearest fuel and oil depot as they nearly all sell 20 l drums at a much better price than the servo. Another good place to buy is your local truck supplies, and is definetly cheaper to buy in 20 l drums than retail packs.

Personally in the 4m40 I dont use a synthetic oil but a mineral and am religious about 5000 k services. ( Iuse either tection J Max or RX Super)

By the way synthetic is a funny term, there is basically no fully synthetic oil sold, synthetic and semi synthetic relate to the amount of refining and synthetic variation of the @*$#@*$#@*$#@*$#cular structure of the oil. The more " synthetic " an oil is the more more consistent its individual @*$#@*$#@*$#@*$#cular size.


Let us know where you are and I may be able to point you to your local distributor.. if you are in a regional area.