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  • Pickle
    Administrator
    • Jun 2007
    • 6881
    • All over Oz

    Legal action

    Yes, a certain camper trailer manufacturer through a solicitor has threatened us with legal action ( defamation) if a thread was not removed containing posts of remarks about the quality of the trailers. Although we will not be removing the thread the posts that mention the camper trailer has been removed and the thread re instated. I have also had to remove another thread this morning that mentions these camper trailers. I will from now remove any mention of this buisiness good or bad from this forum from now on. Simply we don't need legal threats about people who post their gripes here. There are always two sides of the story but only one version posted here. You guys need to be very carefull of what you post when it comes to what you think is unsatifactory service from retailers. Remember this forum is free and is run by a four wheel drive club. It is not profit orientated nor does it need a large amount of input to run it. We get money from advertisers to cover the costs of the server and software anually only. Threats of legal action do not go down well.
    It's your forum but you need to protect it as well. So next time you post with your gripe, just have a little think about it and any comeback that we will get. I will from now on be scrutinising posts a bit more and will delete them if I find they are unsatifactory without explanation.
    These days with the cost of accessories I expect there will be a lot more posts pertaining to manufacturers and the costs of these to be fitted. If you are not happy with what the salesman tells you simply do not come on here and bag him without that person having any comeback. We do not need the grief when we get asked why is this post in there.
    Now please Tread Lightly in here!

    Edit
    We all have a fair idea whom we are talking about regarding the legal threat. Any mention of that buisiness in threads after this will be deleted without warning.
    Admin team.
    NX Pampas Cat GLS MY16
    Member 1228 Pajero Club
  • Calspec
    Valued Member
    • Sep 2007
    • 427
    • SA

    #2
    Fair Enough.

    We often get asked by other users of this site to share our experiences with a variety of products and places. It will be neccessary in the future to keep any passing of negative evaluations to the realm of the "PM" (personal mail). We don't want to see any legal action taken against either the site or individuals, even though, at last look, having an opinion was not cause for litigation.

    I admit that I am as guilty as anyone else for 'bagging" a manufacturer and that was simply because I was asked an opinion. The product, which I had paid good money for, simply was not built to a sufficient standard and I passed that info to a prospective buyer. I also accept that their product may have been extensively improved since I purchased from them - I can only hope so, and that I failed to take that into account.

    Maybe the manufacturers who get upset by the comments could take this critique as an opportunity to improve their product and even take steps to contact the aggrieved customer to offer some assistance/customer service. It doesn't reflect well of the mnufacturer that they only see one recourse and that is litigation. More negative publicity.

    Looking forward: I very recently passed on an opinion of another product, which I thought was a worthy recipient of positive feedback. I will continue to do this. If the feedback given by a user is along the lines of "PM Sent" then you can bet your bottom dollar it aint good, and the manufacturer needs to look at making improvements, but the user doesn't compromise either his own or the sites position, legally.

    Slight alteration to my signature made - wouldn't want to be seen to advertise a product made by Dodgy Brothers and Sue Yorarse Incorporated.
    01 NM Exceed 3.5l Auto, SVI LPG, Pacemakers, Alloy Bar, IPF lights, GME TX3440, OME/King Suspension, 2" Lift, Toyo OCII 75's, 2500Kg Tow Hitch, Milford Cargo Barrier, ARB Fridge, ABR Dual Battery isolator, Rear storage drawers, Hema Navigator 7, JVC 7" In dash DVD, TJM Compressor, 2.5T Hand winch and all the bits that go with it, and a 17' Jayco Westport.

    Comment

    • David Anderson
      Valued Member
      • Aug 2007
      • 1052
      • Albury

      #3
      I was threatened with legal action over a comment I made on a forum, but when I showed the thread to my lawyer (a defamation specialist) he laughed and said it would be VERY hard and VERY expensive to bring the action.
      He then sent a return letter saying we were more than willing to defend the comments in court and we heard no more.

      While I think it's important to watch what you say anywhere, let alone online, we should name names if we're not satisfied with products or services related to our hobby.
      A business that isn't in feedback good or bad isn't fit to be in business IMHO.
      That said, the business should have right of reply here without any bias.

      Someone please PM me the company in question and I'll be sure not to run the risk of legal action by NOT buying from them..
      09 NT GL manual.

      www.twigwater.com - My fly fishing blog.

      http://www.dsaphoto.com

      Comment

      • Scoteye
        Valued Member
        • Jan 2012
        • 421
        • Armidale, NSW

        #4
        Any business or person that wants to take action against a public forum has buckley's of being able to do anything against the owners of a forum for the content held within. Online forums are not under the same laws as other media.

        However I Believe that the forum should have a separate identity to the club, both to protect the club and the users opinions, because essentially the opinions of the users are what makes it a forum in the first place.
        03 NP GLX 3.5 // 5 Speed Sports Auto - ECB 76mm Nudge Bar, Goodyear Wrangler A/T Adventures, Towbar, Brake Controller, Rino track system, Ebay Basket, Narva 100w Compacts
        SOLD: 91 NH GLX: NH/NL Grey GLS upgrade, P/windows, 31's, B/Bar, racks, hella's.

        Comment

        • marquis
          Valued Member
          • Jun 2007
          • 1031
          • Newcastle

          #5
          Maybe we need to run this forum so it cannot be viewed without being logged in.
          --
          Marquis
          SOLD - NT MY10 DiD, ARB D/Bar, Airtec, LRA 81L, Bil/Lov 2", BCDC1220+AGM, P3

          Comment

          • GHendo
            Valued Member
            • Mar 2012
            • 4375
            • Northern NSW

            #6
            This sort of action, trying to gag people having their say, gets right up my nose. It is a sort of suppression of freedom of speech. If the party involved here had any sense, they would join the forum and try to address the issues raised instead of trying to just make them just go away.

            I see ARB have been getting bagged recently but at least they try to tackle the problems head on and don't try to boot the threads off the forum. I am sure members appreciate this approach much more than the threats.

            I'm pretty sure I know who the mob involved here is and there wasn't much said about them at all. I posted a question on that thread and now a search for what I said comes up negative so I can only assume that is the thread that was deleted. If I ever got around to buying a camper, these were the first people I was going to approach even though some people on here said they didn't like the product - I like to make up my own mind. Needless to say however, this puts a really bad taste in my mouth and I won't even bother looking at their product now.

            Geoff
            03 NP Manual Di-D Exceed, 2" lift, Dobinsons Springs, Lovells Shocks, ORU Winch, ARB Bullbar, Scott's Rods 3" Exhaust, ARB Compressor, Rear Air Locker, Cooper S/T Maxx, Hella Rallye 4000 S/Lights, Pioneer AVH-X5850BT DVD/Tuner w/- Reversing Camera, Sensa Tyre monitor, Uniden UH8080NB UHF, Rhino Platform Roof Rack, Hema HN-7 GPS, Engine Watchdog, CouplerTec, CTEK D250S DC-DC Charger, Snorkel, Towbar.

            Comment

            • sharkcaver
              "2000"+ Valued Contributor
              • May 2009
              • 6270
              • Perth

              #7
              Originally posted by Pickle View Post
              Threats of legal action do not go down well.
              Well I fully understand that reaction from the admin's and the paj club as a whole. The last thing the club wants or needs is litigation due to a public members comment on a forum. But you need to protect the clubs name at all cost.

              Its just a darn shame due to one's threat of legal action, this forum will now become a "YES" man's forum where no criticism can be entered into.
              • Pity the poor soul trying to seek advice from this forum to make a researched and informed decision on selected product from now on.

              • Pity the potential litigant didn't have the fortitude to offer counter argument to any negativity that was written.


              Shame, Shame, Shame. The end of unbiased (even if incorrect) opinion.
              MY16 NX GLX5 with just a few bits added. MY14 D-max spacecab, also with a few bits added.

              My Journeys

              Comment

              • Bundyk
                Valued Member
                • Jan 2012
                • 1567
                • North Nowra

                #8
                Originally posted by GHendo View Post
                This sort of action, trying to gag people having their say, gets right up my nose. It is a sort of suppression of freedom of speech. If the party involved here had any sense, they would join the forum and try to address the issues raised instead of trying to just make them just go away.

                I see ARB have been getting bagged recently but at least they try to tackle the problems head on and don't try to boot the threads off the forum. I am sure members appreciate this approach much more than the threats.

                I'm pretty sure I know who the mob involved here is and there wasn't much said about them at all. I posted a question on that thread and now a search for what I said comes up negative so I can only assume that is the thread that was deleted. If I ever got around to buying a camper, these were the first people I was going to approach even though some people on here said they didn't like the product - I like to make up my own mind. Needless to say however, this puts a really bad taste in my mouth and I won't even bother looking at their product now.

                Geoff
                100% agree with Geoff.

                Im not a legal boffin by any means, but I would have thought that for someone or a group to be accused of defamation that the statements made against the accuser would have to be proven false or unsubstantiated.

                However I can completely understand where the admin personnel for the forum are coming from in asking people to be careful of what is being written, regardless of how BS it is. Agree with Shane, we all need to do what is right for the club and the forum.

                So much i want to say and add to Geoff (and others) post, but will refrain.

                Good luck all, hope it goes no further.
                Cheers, Bundy.

                Currently: 2001 NM GLS MY2002 3.5 V6 Manual, Bullbar, GME TX3520, Falken Wildpeak A/T02 LT265/70/16, Pacemaker extractors, KYB Skorched 4's, Villain Lighting 22" lightbar, Bushskinz Front and sump guard, Pioneer 7" screen

                Items to be fitted: ARB 2.5 x 2.1 awning.

                Items to be purchased: Bushskinz- Gearbox/Transfer plates and sliders, Roof racks, Safari Snorkel, Lifted Springs, maybe more...

                Comment

                • peter92
                  Valued Member
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 3056
                  • maryborough queensland

                  #9
                  i agree with what has been said but for the sake of the club, because they are the ones that get in the shit, we should do what dave has mensioned
                  we can bitch about it on a pm and that way no one get into trouble
                  the club comes first, which is us
                  regards peter
                  used to be nl 1999 auto,3.5lt petrol.
                  now 1994 80 series cruiser diesel wagon
                  bull bar side steps, mags,dual batt system,2 waecos 35lt,40lt h/reese towbar,103amp agm batt, 500w inverter. narva spotties, uniden uh7700nb uhf 40 ch narrow band, 2.5kva inverter generator
                  SKYPE NAME possum.58

                  Comment

                  • cjmarsh81
                    Member
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 88
                    • QLD

                    #10
                    I agree with what Dave is going to do. ie remove all posts for this particular supplier. Good and Bad.

                    It is pretty disgusting that a manufacturer resorts to legal threats against a not-for-profit forum rather than fix their own internal processes to satisfy its customers. One would think answering issues related to their product would generate better publicity than legal action to hide their problems.

                    Some places deserve to go out of business.
                    2007 VRX Pajero

                    Comment

                    • JoshF
                      Valued Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 1609
                      • Brisbane

                      #11
                      I noticed something very similar on the 4WD action forum recently.

                      I agree it is better to delete the bad but especially anything that is good so the balance is maintained and the product isn't seen to be better than it really is.

                      Dave are we allowed to do very cynical good reviews instead??
                      Last edited by JoshF; 21-09-12, 11:39 PM.
                      NS Tall and Short (Trakryder/Bilstein 2" lift with Polyairs) DiD "R", Gunmetal on BFG 270/60/17 AT's, TJM Bullbar, 9500lb Ox Winch, Icom 450, AirTech Snorkel, Cargo Barrier, Dual Battery System to power a CF 40, ScanguageII, LRA Auxillary Tank
                      Custom Intercooler/Sump/Transmission Bash Plates and Sliders by http://www.bushskinz4x4.com.au/

                      Comment

                      • Pickle
                        Administrator
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 6881
                        • All over Oz

                        #12
                        Originally posted by JoshF View Post
                        I noticed something very similar on the 4WD action forum
                        Yeah bitchin.

                        Cynical reviews welcome!
                        Dave
                        NX Pampas Cat GLS MY16
                        Member 1228 Pajero Club

                        Comment

                        • Stevie-Ray
                          Valued Member
                          • Jun 2009
                          • 3274
                          • Peakhurst, Sydney

                          #13
                          Whenever you do a search for a product online, 9/10's of the time they're asking for a review of it!
                          However, companies that try to gag customers, need to go back to marketing-101 & relearn that 90% of sales for successful businesses come from return-customers & 'word-of-mouth' recommendations!

                          A simple solution to the issue is to have a 'sticky-thread' with the names of companies who for legal reasons forumites aren't to mention on the forum!?! Otherwise threads/posts are removed as requested, then someone else gives their opinion to another inquiry from someone who's done a search & found nothing. If we know there's a ban on giving honest feedback to a particular product then we wont, but we need to know.....
                          That said, neither is it fair to be critical of a company you've bought something faulty from, without giving them the opportunity to rectify the problem 1st!

                          Steve
                          Steve

                          Runner-Paj; '95 NJ SWB 2.5L TD GL J-Top, low kms Project-Paj; '92 NH SWB 3.0L V6 GLS Hardtop Triple-pack, also low kms. Donor Paj; '92 NH SWB 3.0L V6 GLS Hardtop Triple-pack, with some parts & goodies to go onto other GLS.
                          "I try to take life one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me all at once!"

                          Comment

                          • coley_83
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 278
                            • .

                            #14
                            For shits n giggles call the dumb pricks bluff
                            I'm willing to chip in

                            So from now on not a single bad review can be written on anything ??
                            Welcome to communism

                            Comment

                            • marquis
                              Valued Member
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 1031
                              • Newcastle

                              #15
                              Come to think of it, I have found little information about some campers on some of the forums for some well advertised brands.

                              I still think some or all of the forum should be locked off to anonymous people for reviews of equipment, block search engines seeing it.

                              In the web hosting world I regularly see this (I have to pass on "legal" requests to remove content, if the client doesnt within 48 hours the account is suspended)
                              Last edited by marquis; 22-09-12, 08:56 AM.
                              --
                              Marquis
                              SOLD - NT MY10 DiD, ARB D/Bar, Airtec, LRA 81L, Bil/Lov 2", BCDC1220+AGM, P3

                              Comment

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