Engine Coolant Temperature Ranges

[tomo88]

Hi all,

Purchased my NS in February this year, been really enjoying it and picked it up locally (Adelaide) with a lot of the aftermarket stuff already done (snorkel, lift, winch, EGR, exhaust).

It's given me no grief over the last 10 months and been on a couple trips. Took it to a 4x4 specialist in the area who suggested a timing chain replacement. I intend on keeping the vehicle for a good while (270 on the clock, 260k when bought) so I thought ok I'll invest in it. They recommended radiator change too as it was brittle when removed.

I work in the Adelaide Hills so always drive up the freeway in the morning and noticed that the engine was running very hot. Had never had the temp gauge go past half the whole time owning it. Opened the bonnet and noticed nothing in the resivour and took it back. They said leak in one of the hoses but was still running hotter than they liked. They said the viscous clutch was empty (no oil) and refurbed that as well as new thermostat.

Was still going up to 3/4 on the temp gauge up the high so I called and they said that that was 93 degrees which was optimal. I borrowed a friend's obd Bluetooth tool and have recorded a few runs and all times it peaks at 117 degrees Celsius at which point the hill stops so I cannot continue further, at which point the engine cools back to around 85-90.

Is 117 normal? Speaking to a few people they reckon it's quite hot. Would the car go into limp mode at this point or is it OK for the engine to operate at this range? Many thanks for your opinions.

[geopaj]

Welcome to the Forum and Pajero ownership. There’s a few Forum members in Adelaide.

Is it a petrol or diesel? It’s unusual to need to change the diesel’s timing chair but the petrol’s timing belt needs to be done approximately every 100,000km.

To clarify/summarise, you’ve have a new radiator, thermostat, and the fan viscous clutch over halls but are still getting coolant temperatures up to 117c?

I personally think that 117c is not in the normal acceptable range (unless, it was 40+c day and you were flogging it up a big hill towing a decent load). Mine’s a diesel but mine’s only ever hit 110-113c on 2 occasions - both were on hot Adelaide days flogging it doing load testing. During normal driving/towing, I don’t normally see more than about 102c.

What hill are you referring to and what were the conditions (temp, towing, etc)?

PS the factory temp gauges are not an accurate indication of coolant temperature. Think of it more a a general indicator (mine only rises 1mm above its ‘normal’ position [which is 88c] with a coolant temp of 110c).

[tomo88]

Heya geopaj, cheers for the response. Sorry, I should have specified a few more things: it's the 3.2 diesel, auto and it was believed by the mechanic that the timing chain was stretched.

Yup, new radiator, thermostat and refurbed viscous clutch. It's heading onto the freeway from the start at Portrush road and the climb up to crafters, going through the tunnel. I work in Woodside so take it all the way to the B37 exit. I've driven up that the freeway all year under the same conditions, not flogging it or anything, keeping it at 100 so most times the auto gear box keeps it in 4th and at about 2.75 grand. I did take the reading in the recent 44 degree Wednesday (this is 0700 in the morning with the outside temp reading at 20 degrees) but also the cooler Thursday after. I intend to do a few more recordings the coming week as well. As ya said, the analog gauge is definitely not the best measure which is why I've been using the obd and an app on my phone.

On a side note, if you have any info on where to find local meet ups/organised trips that would be awesome too!

[geopaj]

Heya geopaj, cheers for the response. Sorry, I should have specified a few more things: it's the 3.2 diesel, auto and it was believed by the mechanic that the timing chain was stretched.

Yup, new radiator, thermostat and refurbed viscous clutch. It's heading onto the freeway from the start at Portrush road and the climb up to crafters, going through the tunnel. I work in Woodside so take it all the way to the B37 exit. I've driven up that the freeway all year under the same conditions, not flogging it or anything, keeping it at 100 so most times the auto gear box keeps it in 4th and at about 2.75 grand. I did take the reading in the recent 44 degree Wednesday (this is 0700 in the morning with the outside temp reading at 20 degrees) but also the cooler Thursday after. I intend to do a few more recordings the coming week as well. As ya said, the analog gauge is definitely not the best measure which is why I've been using the obd and an app on my phone.

On a side note, if you have any info on where to find local meet ups/organised trips that would be awesome too!

Your timing is perfect! There is actually a get together in a fortnight.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=620653

Sorry to keep asking questions, but it is difficult diagnosing via the internet. Do you know if it has a performance chip or and had a ‘tune’?

I also just re-read your initial post... has it only been running hot since the radiator and timing chain was done? If that’s the case, logic would suggest that the cause is something that the mechanic changed.

[spot01]

Keep checking the coolant level for a while yet (only remove cap when stone cold), as these engines sometimes get air locks when refilled.


I wouldn't expect the factory gauge to go to 3/4, as these are calibrated to sit around 1/2 & not move above that until the engine temp is way up. I certainly would be concerned if the gauge went above half going up the freeway in only 20 degrees, particularly if it didn't do it before the work was done.



So something has changed since they did all this work on it?
Try to find out what thermosat they used, eg, genuine or aftermarket, which brand & what temp settings it has. I assume they replaced the hoses & radiator cap also?



On a different tack, did they check or replace the timing chain tensioner when replacing the chain? Unusual to hear of a stretched chain in these motors. These were recalled some time ago, so it should have been dealt with then if it was in the recall, but worth checking on the MMAL website to see if your car has any outstanding recalls, eg, airbags, indicators, tensioner, etc. Interestingly, the few faulty tensioners they found caused the chain to be damaged, with some failures resulting, but I haven't heard of any issues in recent years.

[tomo88]

Spewing! I've already got plans that weekend but I'll keep my eyes open for future meet ups as I'm definitely keen to explore more of SA (moved here from Vic 2016).

Yes, the previous owner said he'd gotten a tune done by Jtech. Didn't have any of the paperwork regarding the specifics of the tune, but had it done.

Yea, I was hoping to not have to continually call the mechanic as I'm not getting the most friendly responses but I've spent nearly now 6k as I had the timing chain and front wheel hub assemblies also done and they reckon they've gone over their work already but I just want to know that it's 100 percent. A friend suggested it may need a bleed for air pockets, which was something they had an issue with first time so I was hoping that it was done right the second time around.

Cheers for your response; I'll give them a bell again as I do want a guarantee if they are going to suggest that's normal running temps then any potential future damage will be covered by them.

[geopaj]

If it has always run hot I would suspect the tune but given it started after only the radiator and timing chain was replaced, this is where I’d start.

Does it drive as nice as before (ie same amount of power, good idle, etc)? If yes, you can discount an issue with the timing chain timing.

That leaves the radiator. I wonder if they’ve inadvertently fitted a petrol radiator? A quick online check shows they have similar dimensions and hose locations but a petrol radiator has only a 16mm core, whereas a diesel uses a 25mm core.

Can you measure the radiator core thickness (the core is the silver bit in the middle, not the tanks on the top and bottom)? It’s easy to do and don’t require any disassembly.

[nj swb]

I think this thread is going well, but I just want to chime in that 117 degrees at Crafers is a long way from being right.

On that Wednesday, climbing McIntyre road in 40 degree heat with a massive tail wind (high load / low air speed through radiator / intercooler) I saw much higher temperatures than normal (but nothing like 117 degrees). If you only saw the 117 on that Wednesday I wouldn't be too concerned, but since you've seen it at other times I'd say you need more help.

It's disappointing that your mechanic is trying to fob you off rather than help you fix the problem - but I believe you do have a real problem.

Good luck.

Edit: check the hoses going to the overflow bottle. The long straw in the bottle connects to the radiator, the short straw goes to overflow. Yours wouldn't be the first time they've been swapped, which means pressure in the radiator forces liquid out of the bottle overflow, then there's no liquid to suck back in as everything cools.

[tomo88]

Thanks for the replies, gents. It's much appreciated!

Very interesting about the different core sizes based on petrol v diesel; I'm currently away at the moment but will check Monday.

Yea, on our stinking hot Adelaide days, I wouldn't really be too worried but yes, the Thursday was just like the Wednesday and I want to take a few more samples the coming week as well.

Are there any ways to get alerts for any upcoming SA meetups or just keep my eyes out on the forum?

[Keithyv]

Yeah to me 117 degrees is way too hot.
Is the car an auto or manual?

For reference last weekend I towed a caravan (albeit only a 1500kg or so one) up a few hills on a 40 degree day and I saw the coolant only rise to 98 at the highest (this is on Torque).

I have an NW diesel Auto BUT I do have a lockup-mate which makes a massive difference in auto temps and thus coolant temps.

Thus my question on what transmission you have...

[tomo88]

Yup, it's an auto and it generally stays in 4th when going up the hill as it can be a bit picky when letting it Goto 5th, as it'll just gear down.

Performance wise feels the same; idles nicer if anything so I don't think it's an issue with the timing chain. Asked to have the tappets done so that got done, as well as the tensioner guide. Checked the MMAL recall site and mine only had the airbags on it so yea I'm spewing about my chain having to get done.

Can't say whether they changed the cap and hoses, it wasn't on the quote nor what brand/settings the thermostat has. I'll take a few more samples this coming week, check the radiator is the correct one and check the hosing into the resivour before calling them up and saying that it's still an issue.

[spot01]

Yup, it's an auto and it generally stays in 4th when going up the hill as it can be a bit picky when letting it Goto 5th, as it'll just gear down.

Performance wise feels the same; idles nicer if anything so I don't think it's an issue with the timing chain. Asked to have the tappets done so that got done, as well as the tensioner guide. Checked the MMAL recall site and mine only had the airbags on it so yea I'm spewing about my chain having to get done.

Can't say whether they changed the cap and hoses, it wasn't on the quote nor what brand/settings the thermostat has. I'll take a few more samples this coming week, check the radiator is the correct one and check the hosing into the resivour before calling them up and saying that it's still an issue.

So are you saying the airbags have not been done? If so, book it in to a dealer urgently as yours are quite old now & the risk increases with age - no cost to you.



Check the recalls australia gov't website to see if your car was within the tensioner recall range. Do you have the old tensioner & chain? If so, discuss with dealer.


If the cap was changed it should be shiny & new looking. If not changed, I would change it now (be sure to get the correct rating - easiest & safest to get a genuine one, as I have doubts about the workshop you have been using). Hoses will also look new if they were changed (look for dirt, etc. near the clamps). If they didn't change the cap & hoses whilst doing the radiator, I'd ask why, as these items don't last for ever. Did they replace the coolant & what brand/type did the use?

[tomo88]

Sorry, should have specified that it was only the airbags that were listed under my VIN but that they had been done. I just found the recall specific to the timing chain tensioner and my VIN falls within the range so I'm absolutely kicking my self if I paid 2 grand for something that would have potentially been covered! Argh! The recall doesn't pop up under the VIN search which is annoying, should have done my research prior but I guess it's done now. I'll check the condition of the hosing and cap when I'm back home tomorrow.

Edit: coolant was replaced with 6L of concentrate from penrite, doesn't specify the actual mix on the quote

[spot01]

Sorry, should have specified that it was only the airbags that were listed under my VIN but that they had been done. I just found the recall specific to the timing chain tensioner and my VIN falls within the range so I'm absolutely kicking my self if I paid 2 grand for something that would have potentially been covered! Argh! The recall doesn't pop up under the VIN search which is annoying, should have done my research prior but I guess it's done now. I'll check the condition of the hosing and cap when I'm back home tomorrow.

Edit: coolant was replaced with 6L of concentrate from penrite, doesn't specify the actual mix on the quote

Some coolants don't mix very well and can form a gel that clogs up the cooling system, particularly if the old coolant wasn't flushed out several times. Check for any sign of gel forming in the coolant.


I'm a bit surprised a specialist workshop wouldn't know about the tensioner recall, or perhaps they did? I'd be asking some questions. My discussions would only be with the manager at this stage regarding this & the overheating that has only appeared since all their work on it. Be polite but firm. Hopefully you don't have to move on to the next step, eg, Office of Fair Trading. If you are in the RAA, they may be able to assist with advice.

I would also discuss the tensioner/chain with a dealer or MMAL area rep, although without the old parts it is a longshot, but it costs nothing to ask - probably depands on what their experience has been with cars from the same batch as yours.

[twisted32]

What was the auto temp when coolant hit 117deg?

You say it's in 4th, are you in sport mode, or assuming 4th from rpm?