Rated recovery points, again

[pronvit]

First of all, I've seen all these threads and videos about the factory points.
The problem is that my local 4WD club rules state that cars must have rated points. That's mainly to make people performing recoveries feel safe, which I can understand.

Any options at all to comply with the rules?

[rgrubby]

I can see this thread generating a lot of heated opinion.

I'm in the same boat here and the reason I fitted my winch now is so when I get the hooks done, they won't put something there would effect the winch mounting.
I talked to one of the 4WD modification places that does certifying for the club about it. What they do is cut off the original loop and mount a plate either side of the "chassis" in the same location with tubes through the bolt holes. The hook is mounted to the plate.

[old Jack]

First of all, I've seen all these threads and videos about the factory points.
The problem is that my local 4WD club rules state that cars must have rated points. That's mainly to make people performing recoveries feel safe, which I can understand.

Any options at all to comply with the rules?

It is unbelievable that there are still backward thinking 4wd clubs that are getting away with this outdated requirement.

Options are;

1. Roadsafe do rated recovery points for the MQ Triton and these will fit the Pajero Sport, however they must be used inconjunction with a bridle. Note the disclaimer from their website.

http://roadsafe.com.au/4wd/tow-points/

It is the Tow Points themselves as supplied that have been tested to the WLL advised. It is at the vehicle owners discretion for fitment, ensuring that the chassis is adequately designed, constructed and/or rated to suit this application.

These Tow Points have been designed and tested for straight line pull. The Tow Points have not been tested for lifting purposes & should not be used for lifting, the forces applied differ between lifting and straight line pull type recoveries. Roadsafe Tow Points are FEA Tested during design and Destruction tested during development to establish Working Load Limits.

Yet fitting a bridle means there is no longer a straight line pull and the supplier is saying the strength of the attachment is the owners responsibility!

With any aftermarket recovery point you need to check if they are compatible with the bull bar if it is fitted as many recovery points cannot be fitted in conjunction with a bullbar.

I have seen this type of rated points fitted to a Prado, that was badly bogged in very soft sand, they where using an incorrectly rated cheap snatch strap (11,000kg). After more than a dozen really hard pulls at an accute angle the Prado was free but the recovery points had broken bolts and were distorted. In the meantime we did 2 Maxtrax recoveries with no damage or risk to the other 2 vehicles bogged on the same beach.

2. Challenge the clubs requirements, ask them on what proven engineering basis they have for this requirement or find another club.

3. Buy a can of yellow or red safety "rated" spray paint and paint the genuine factory points. This should make those people doing the recovery "feel safe".
The factory points designed and manufactured correctly, and are as strong or stronger than any bolted on aftermarket recover point.

A previous thread;

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=61708

ARB do a single rated recovery point that is fitted to the drivers side only, I would be worried about twisting the chassis using a single point in a hard recovery.

https://www.arb.com.au/mitsubishi-pajero-sport-2016-2017/

OJ.

[Keithyv]

The problem is that my local 4WD club rules state that cars must have rated points.
Any options at all to comply with the rules?

Ask them what this actually means.

I assume they know better than something an engineer in the factory has designed?

[nj swb]

First of all, I've seen all these threads and videos about the factory points.
The problem is that my local 4WD club rules state that cars must have rated points. That's mainly to make people performing recoveries feel safe, which I can understand.

Any options at all to comply with the rules?

Join a different club?

Your local 4wd club is concerned, quite rightly, about members attempting to use tie-down points for recoveries. That is a disaster waiting to happen. But the requirement for "rated" points, if that is the actual wording, is poorly written, and probably being enforced by people who have less idea than whoever wrote the rule.

The front loops on a Gen 3 / 4 Pajero (presuming that's what we're talking about?) are long lengths of steel rod that are welded into recesses stamped into the Pajero's monocoque. They are significantly more substantial than a tie-down point, are well engineered, and they don't rely on the shear strength of bolts that may or may not be torqued correctly.

I'm going to go out on a limb and state that this forum's host club, the Pajero 4wd Club of Victoria, has recovered more Gen 3 and Gen 4 Pajeros over the last 19 years than your local club ever will. If these loops were going to fail during recoveries then this club would know about it, and would have identified a stronger solution. But this club has no issues with using the factory points for recoveries. How does your local club know better than this club?

Explain to the club's powers that be that the front loops on the Pajero are factory engineered, and ask them to get down on their knees and actually look at how they are attached to the vehicle. Ask the club how they perform recoveries such that sufficient force will be generated to make one fail.

If they truly believe that the factory points will fail then they are doing their recoveries wrong, and you don't want to be involved. Their members may "feel safe" using brightly painted aftermarket "recovery points" bolted on by amateurs in their driveway at home, but that doesn't mean that they are safe.

[pronvit]

Thanks everyone and especially nj swb for wonderful responses. First of all I just wanted to make sure there's indeed no way to get (properly) actual rated points on Pajero, like for example I thought no-one is making hidden winch mounts for it until I accidentally found one.

I'll try explaining all this to my club now. Part of the problem is that it's up to individual trip leaders to decide whether to accept a car for a trip or not, and I potentially will have to convince a lot of people individually (including those actually doing recoveries). So getting bright red points or painting the existing one would be just easier Indeed they just haven't seen a lot of Pajero's which are not popular here so I can't blame them for not knowing about our loops.

[Merts]

I talked to one of the 4WD modification places that does certifying for the club about it. What they do is cut off the original loop and mount a plate either side of the "chassis" in the same location with tubes through the bolt holes. The hook is mounted to the plate.

Cutting the factory designed and engineered points off, and replacing them with something that may be stronger, but also may be inferior. I guess they are bright yellow so they should make people feel more safe?

[rgrubby]

I don't know if this will help or just create more debate, but this link lists my local clubs rules and has some detailed engineering specifications for hooks and their mounting

[old Jack]

I have just looked at the Mitsubishi Manufacturers Body Repair Manual and it indicated that the front recovery loops and the chassis are made from high tensile steel.

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/pajero_sport_iii/online/Service_Manual/img/01/ABF00191AB00ENG.pdf

Armed with this information then a good mechanical engineer should be able to give you a written report after inspecting the points to say they have a load rating of at least 5,000kg WLL.

OJ.

[pronvit]

I don't know if this will help or just create more debate, but this link lists my local clubs rules and has some detailed engineering specifications for hooks and their mounting

There was no link, but I guess it's something like I have: "Your vehicle must have rated recovery points (front and rear) that are securely mounted to the chassis with high tensile bolts - 2x 12mm bolts, grade 8.8 or imperial equivalent. "

[pronvit]

I have just looked at the Mitsubishi Manufacturers Body Repair Manual and it indicated that the front recovery loops and the chassis are made from high tensile steel.

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/pajero_sport_iii/online/Service_Manual/img/01/ABF00191AB00ENG.pdf

Armed with this information then a good mechanical engineer should be able to give you a written report after inspecting the points to say they have a load rating of at least 5,000kg WLL.

Sorry I need to configure my signature finally, but yeah, we're talking about Gen 4 here, not Sport. Although I'm pretty sure it's made of the same steel, so still helpful.

[aussieguy]

First of all, I've seen all these threads and videos about the factory points.
The problem is that my local 4WD club rules state that cars must have rated points. That's mainly to make people performing recoveries feel safe, which I can understand.

Any options at all to comply with the rules?

ALL recovery points have a RATED MAX "PULL", now if you have 2 points and share the load that reduces the force on the recovery point which is why it is better to have 2 on the front for pulling your vehicle out.



Now, I would ask the club what they consider a "RATED" recovery point to be, because the factory tow point is a "RATED" recovery point, its just rated @ "NFI but is lower then after market points", but by definition is RATED, and rated low so its better not to use them with a snatch recovery.

[rgrubby]

There was no link, but I guess it's something like I have: "Your vehicle must have rated recovery points (front and rear) that are securely mounted to the chassis with high tensile bolts - 2x 12mm bolts, grade 8.8 or imperial equivalent. "

Sorry, my bad. It is a bit more detailed than that

http://www.ccvc.org.nz/page-1725862

[pronvit]

Sorry, my bad. It is a bit more detailed than that
http://www.ccvc.org.nz/page-1725862

Wow, 4 documents on recovery points!
Your club seems to be bigger, there must be other Pajero owners there who somehow solved the problem?

[rgrubby]

I haven't seen any yet, but I've only been on three intro trips. The engineer I talked to about it had done at least one other gen 4 pajero, I assume for that club