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  • Aussie_Dan
    Valued Member
    • Jan 2010
    • 4088
    • Cairns

    I bought a lemon....

    Yep, bought a 2004 DiD manual GLX on tuesday. 94,000kms on the clock, very neat and tidy. Had it's log book services every 15,000 (would have liked to see 7500 intervals, but nevermind). Drove like a dream on the test drive.
    The same afternoon as I picked it up (only 2 days ago), the trouble began. It started surging and felt like it was misfiring at light throttle opening below about 2000rpm. Once over 2000rpm and the boost started to build, it cleared up and went like a rocket. Even when playing up, there is absolutely no smoke coming out the exhaust.
    Yesterday it started playing up big time. It was a constant struggle for me to get the car home from work as it was constantly surging and jerking around. I would literally have to get to the speed limit as fast as I could and then push the clutch in and coast. At idle it is fine and even when I don't use the accelerator and slow down using engine braking it is smooth as silk.
    This morning i took the car to my local Mitsubishi dealer to have the codes checked in the ECU. Surprise, surprise, there were no codes logged. They checked out a 'Map sensor filter', the EGR valve and the throttle butterfly, all appear to be fine.
    This afternoon, I opened up the fuel tank and checked the in tank strainer / filter. It was as clean as a whistle. Then I drained the diesel filter (which was changed at the 90,000 service on 1st june this year) in the engine bay and hooked it up to a fresh, clean jerry of diesel and ran the car from that. No difference, if you hold the revs up around 2000, it surges, misfires and carries on. Still no smoke out the exhaust though.
    I then removed the battery and disconnected all of the plugs around the injector pump and proceeded to try and remove the primary and backup speed sensors. I managed to get the backup sensor out, but couldn't get the primary one out with the tools that I have here at home. I did manage to get the connector on and off of the primary sensor a few times, just to make sure the electrical connection was good. So i put it all back together again hoping that the disturbance of all the electrical connections might have helped. No such luck.....
    So it is going to have to sit in the garage for a few weeks until I have the money and can afford to take it to a diesel specialist for diagnosis.
    I am really hoping that it just turns out to only be a knackered injector and not an injector pump or something else expensive.
    Does anyone have any suggestions for me of what to check next, or of any components that may be causing this problem?
    It seems weird to me that it is still starting and idling beautifully. Would it possibly still do this with a crook injector?
    Thanks in advance, Dan.
    2004 NP DiD GLX, 5 spd Manual with SMF, ARB Bullbar, Ironman 12000lb winch, Lightforce Genesis lights, Airtec Snorkel, 81L LRA tank, Unifilter, GME 3500 UHF, Redarc elec brake controller, ARB dual Batt tray with 60AH Deep cycle Batt & Redarc Isolator, Bushskinz Sliders, intercooler and sump guards, Lovells raised HD springs, Polyairs & Bilstein shocks, Milford Cargo Barrier, Philips +100 globes, 2nd set of rims with 245/75x16 Bighorns, Waeco 60L Fridge & a Cavalier camper trailer!
  • thall
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2010
    • 31
    • adelaide

    #2
    Did you buy privately?

    Comment

    • peter92
      Valued Member
      • Mar 2009
      • 3056
      • maryborough queensland

      #3
      hi dan, my mate next door had the same thing as you on his patrol
      turns out to be the sensor on the pump, throttle i think, cost him 250 to fix and this problem wont show up on the computer,, has to be checked manualy
      regards peter
      used to be nl 1999 auto,3.5lt petrol.
      now 1994 80 series cruiser diesel wagon
      bull bar side steps, mags,dual batt system,2 waecos 35lt,40lt h/reese towbar,103amp agm batt, 500w inverter. narva spotties, uniden uh7700nb uhf 40 ch narrow band, 2.5kva inverter generator
      SKYPE NAME possum.58

      Comment

      • amr75wcr
        Valued Member
        • Dec 2009
        • 1543
        • Sunny Coast

        #4
        Haven't had the problem with our DID, just thinking outside the box have you made sure the system is free from air bubbles. Seems starnge it drove well on a test drive and is now having issues. Other than that i have attached the fuel injection system from the workshop manual it may give you some clues where to look.
        Attached Files
        04 NP DID GLX ARB Steel Bullbar 2" ARB/King Springs, Billies, Warn Winch, Rhino Track Mount Racks, Rola Basket, Rallye 4000 HID, UHF, Reverse camera, Custom Console, Fridge Slide and Rear Door Table, DVD Screen, 40lt Engel, Dual Battery Sytem with Auto Isolator, Cargo Barrier, polaris gps, Sat Phone, BFG A/Ts, Foxwing awning, ARB Locker, Bush Skinz sliders $ inter plate, 3" exhaust chip, custom bar & twin tyres

        And a PB Challenger with a list if goodies getting as long as the Paj

        Comment

        • t0ne
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2010
          • 295
          • Adelaide

          #5
          Dan,

          If you bought it through a dealer take it back to that dealer and get them to fix it, you will have a warranty on the car. Unless you signed away you warranty rights.
          2005 NP MY06 DiD Auto Exceed, Nudge bar, IPF spot lights, rear DVD for the kids.(being added) long range tank, poly airs, heavy duty springs, dual battery, slotted rotors. New van: 2013 Jayco starcraft 22.68.1

          Comment

          • peter92
            Valued Member
            • Mar 2009
            • 3056
            • maryborough queensland

            #6
            yeah i agree, take it back
            used to be nl 1999 auto,3.5lt petrol.
            now 1994 80 series cruiser diesel wagon
            bull bar side steps, mags,dual batt system,2 waecos 35lt,40lt h/reese towbar,103amp agm batt, 500w inverter. narva spotties, uniden uh7700nb uhf 40 ch narrow band, 2.5kva inverter generator
            SKYPE NAME possum.58

            Comment

            • Phil
              Valued Member
              • Aug 2008
              • 801
              • Sydney

              #7
              It could be the speed sensor/s.
              They have been known to not throw a code and can cause all types of havoc.

              Checkout Pats problems and what was replaced, in the end it was speed sensors


              For me it was a pump rebuild.... not cheap.

              Phil.
              MY05 NP DiD Auto Platinum. Custom scratches. ARB bar & 12000lbs winch. Maxxis Bighorns. BushSkinz Bash plates & slidders. TJM auto guard. Gear box, trans & diff breathers. Rhino racks & Pod. Awning with LED. Dual batteries. HID Narva 225's. Airtec snorkel. 2" Lovell/Bilstein lift. GME TX3500. Wetseat covers. Pioneer BT deck. Cargo barrier. Beaudesert exhaust. Rear storage & CF80. ARB onboard air. NS 18s for the black top, 80L LRA tank. HPD Catch Can. HPD Intercooler.

              Comment

              • Aussie_Dan
                Valued Member
                • Jan 2010
                • 4088
                • Cairns

                #8
                Cheers guys.
                Unfortunately for me, I bought it privately. Although in saying that, I probably saved close to 5 grand when compared to buying a similar car from a yard, so if I can fix it for under that difference in price, I will still come out okay.
                I know that I am not getting air bubbles in the system, as I monitored that today when I had the car feeding from a jerry can. I had both the supply and return lines hooked through clear pvc pipe and noticed exactly the same as Pat did in his thread. The return line was turbulent, but no sign of any real bubbles.
                I am hoping it is either the speed sensors in front of the pump or an injector. If I could have got that primary speed sensor off today, I would have swapped them around to see if that made any difference.... Might just buy a couple of new sensors anyway and have them fitted?
                Dan.
                2004 NP DiD GLX, 5 spd Manual with SMF, ARB Bullbar, Ironman 12000lb winch, Lightforce Genesis lights, Airtec Snorkel, 81L LRA tank, Unifilter, GME 3500 UHF, Redarc elec brake controller, ARB dual Batt tray with 60AH Deep cycle Batt & Redarc Isolator, Bushskinz Sliders, intercooler and sump guards, Lovells raised HD springs, Polyairs & Bilstein shocks, Milford Cargo Barrier, Philips +100 globes, 2nd set of rims with 245/75x16 Bighorns, Waeco 60L Fridge & a Cavalier camper trailer!

                Comment

                • psproule
                  Valued Member
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 3680
                  • Googong, NSW

                  #9
                  Dan, I suggested to you in a PM to look at the EGR and throttle butterfly setup first. The other thing to do would be to go for a drive with a MUTT connected and have a look at the live data. MM can do it, or any Bosch diesel specialist can - their diagnostics systems will talk to a DID. I spent some time with Denco on mine.
                  2016 Mitsubishi NX Pajero GLX
                  2011 Landrover Freelander II SD4

                  Comment

                  • Aussie_Dan
                    Valued Member
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 4088
                    • Cairns

                    #10
                    Thanks Pat, I will check into those things. I will have to do some reading of the manual first though.
                    I did read on here somewhere that when you turn the ignition to 'ON', the throttle butterfly should open and close one full cycle as a pre-start check.. Will check that out a few times to make sure it isn't sticking and it is smooth.
                    Another thing I thought of.... Just to eliminate it as a possible cause, If I disconnect the electrical plug off of the primary speed sensor, will this force the fuel system to run off of the backup speed sensor? It still concerns me that the primary speed sensor might be giving out spurious signals as engine speed increases, causing fuel to be injected at the wrong time. Does anyone know if the car should run with only the backup sensor connected?
                    Thanks again, Dan.
                    2004 NP DiD GLX, 5 spd Manual with SMF, ARB Bullbar, Ironman 12000lb winch, Lightforce Genesis lights, Airtec Snorkel, 81L LRA tank, Unifilter, GME 3500 UHF, Redarc elec brake controller, ARB dual Batt tray with 60AH Deep cycle Batt & Redarc Isolator, Bushskinz Sliders, intercooler and sump guards, Lovells raised HD springs, Polyairs & Bilstein shocks, Milford Cargo Barrier, Philips +100 globes, 2nd set of rims with 245/75x16 Bighorns, Waeco 60L Fridge & a Cavalier camper trailer!

                    Comment

                    • Lance
                      Valued Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 1605
                      • Melbourne

                      #11
                      I have very limited experience with Pajs, (none actually) but is it possible to do a ECU reset by disconnecting the battery for a period of time ?
                      Things may have changed a bit, but that was a handy 'fix-all' for some Nissans going back a while.
                      2005 NP Platinum Edition, DiD Auto
                      2009 VW Crafter motorhome

                      Comment

                      • Aussie_Dan
                        Valued Member
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 4088
                        • Cairns

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Lance View Post
                        I have very limited experience with Pajs, (none actually) but is it possible to do a ECU reset by disconnecting the battery for a period of time ?
                        Things may have changed a bit, but that was a handy 'fix-all' for some Nissans going back a while.
                        Done that twice now Lance. The first time gave me a 40km window of good running, the second time made absolutely no change.
                        Cheers, Dan.
                        2004 NP DiD GLX, 5 spd Manual with SMF, ARB Bullbar, Ironman 12000lb winch, Lightforce Genesis lights, Airtec Snorkel, 81L LRA tank, Unifilter, GME 3500 UHF, Redarc elec brake controller, ARB dual Batt tray with 60AH Deep cycle Batt & Redarc Isolator, Bushskinz Sliders, intercooler and sump guards, Lovells raised HD springs, Polyairs & Bilstein shocks, Milford Cargo Barrier, Philips +100 globes, 2nd set of rims with 245/75x16 Bighorns, Waeco 60L Fridge & a Cavalier camper trailer!

                        Comment

                        • psproule
                          Valued Member
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 3680
                          • Googong, NSW

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Aussie_Dan View Post
                          Thanks Pat, I will check into those things. I will have to do some reading of the manual first though.
                          I did read on here somewhere that when you turn the ignition to 'ON', the throttle butterfly should open and close one full cycle as a pre-start check.. Will check that out a few times to make sure it isn't sticking and it is smooth.
                          Another thing I thought of.... Just to eliminate it as a possible cause, If I disconnect the electrical plug off of the primary speed sensor, will this force the fuel system to run off of the backup speed sensor? It still concerns me that the primary speed sensor might be giving out spurious signals as engine speed increases, causing fuel to be injected at the wrong time. Does anyone know if the car should run with only the backup sensor connected?
                          Thanks again, Dan.
                          I dont think the throttle butterfly cycles. It needs engine vacuum for a start. I am not sure how it will behave with one speed sensor dropped off. The manual states "primary" and "backup". I do know it will throw a fault code if you start probing it with a CRO.

                          Re your focus on this sensor - you should know that mine was the first case of one failing that we have heard of at least in here over the last 8 or so years. And it only failed when abnormally hot.

                          Pat
                          2016 Mitsubishi NX Pajero GLX
                          2011 Landrover Freelander II SD4

                          Comment

                          • awill4wd
                            Valued Member
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 620
                            • Pakenham, Melbourne

                            #14
                            I'm putting my money on an inlet manifold full of EGR crud and a blocked Map sensor. I know you said the dealer checked the filter but I just think your problem may stem from this area.
                            The pics below are from the Triton forum showing the extent of the problem.
                            They are saying the problem presents itself with surging and poor idle control.
                            Regards Andrew.









                            2019 MR Triton bog stock at the moment but that will change.

                            Comment

                            • Ranger J
                              Valued Member
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 1200
                              • Perth, Western Australia

                              #15
                              ^^^

                              Wow thats some pretty serious buildup...hmm might be time to block that bloody EGR off after all!
                              NP GLS DID Auto: ARB Bar, Warn XD9000, Rear ARB Locker, Dobinsons, Bilsteins, 33" BFG MT's, 61Lt Sub Tank, Striker 170's, Dual Batts, etc. etc. etc.

                              Comment

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