Air bags and upgraded suspension

[2bad4u]

Just after some opinions from people who have upgraded their suspension and air bags.

My current situation is I have been running air bags with the stock suspension and WDH and found that the air bags really settled the a55 end down a lot. I've been really happy with the ride and handling since I put them in about 3 years ago. Now I am looking at upgrading the suspension (200kg - 400kg springs) and thinking I could do away with the bags.

Has anyone done this (ie gone from the same setup I have) or anyone fitted air bags to an upgraded suspension? The other problem I have is the air bags aren't compatible with the new suspension so I would need spacers or a whole new set.

I'm also adding a long range fuel tank which will add a bit more weight on the back end.

Cheers

[Tugga]

The suspension guy talked a good argument for not putting airbags in and going for standard height HD springs in back.

His reasoning was airbags just squish a bit, while springs are firmer across the whole compression. It was a good call. The HD standard height tough dog springs with Ironman shocks were about the same cost as bags and work a treat for me. I run an extended tow hitch to open the back door. Rides is a little firmer, but doesn't ruin the legendary Pajero ride.

Doesn't sag badly when hooking up the boat. That was my goal.

[Ian H]

My guy said the same....stay away from air bags.

And take your rig over a weigh bridge when it's hooked up. With a loaded up car and a full secondary fuel tank, you'll be surprised how little you have left for extra gear. Do what i did and weigh it with your WDH on, and then again with it off. The difference in mine was 160kg on the back axle and with no WDH (and only a 16' van) I was over spec and illegal.

[nj swb]

Air bags can be a cheap and nasty solution to a problem.

But, depending on the problem, they can be a viable part of the solution.

I do not like airbags having had them fitted to a leaf sprung 4wd and I went to great lengths to find a solution on the live axle Challenger so I did not have to fit airbags.

In recent times I have been looking at rear spring setups for the Gen 4 Pajero for both NJswb and Pajero 12, due to the IRS it is impossible to get a coil that gives a nice ride height and comfort when empty and be able to take heavy loads at or in excess of the rear axle limit. Regrettably It is looking likely that both a spring upgrade and airbags are required if you run both empty and very heavy. I am still about 6 weeks away from releasing my load to ride height tables for the Challenger and Gen 4 Pajero. The Pajero Sport will take a little longer as I do not have easy access to one to work with.

OJ.

I never really run empty, but between "full touring weight" and day tripping from a standing camp without a full fuel load and a full water tank, I'm struggling to get a decent ride height while heavy without too much height while not fully loaded.

Air bags shouldn't be the starting point for a solution, but they can't be ruled out either.

[2bad4u]

The only reason I went air bags in the first place was to tame the back end down. Originally with just the WDH, the car was reasonably level and weight was distributed nicely. The problem was going over bumps, railway crossings, etc., the back end would take a bit to settle down (it would continue to bounce too much for my liking). With the air bags this didn't happen and the whole setup was comfortable and stable.

I'm just thinking I won't need them with the suspension upgrade. I'm only asking because I have to decide if I'm going to rip them out or not before the upgrade.

[Nab]

I ran HD Lovells springs front and back for a while before fitting airbags. My camper ball weight is 190kg and I found it still wallowed a bit. I fitted airbags and this greatly reduced the wallowing but did not affect ride height empty or loaded.

I reckon go the HD springs and put in your airbags since you already have them. You may find you never need to use them but if you don't put them in you will have to do the job again just to install the airbags.

[2bad4u]

Thanks Nab

Similar ball weight and similar problem. Hmmmmm.

[Nab]

My springs were recently upgraded from HD to EHD under warranty. Even with the EHD and air bags at 30psi the rear still dropped 40mm with the camper on the back...

Good luck!!!

[old Jack]

My springs were recently upgraded from HD to EHD under warranty. Even with the EHD and air bags at 30psi the rear still dropped 40mm with the camper on the back...

Good luck!!!

Have you weighed the towball load?
On a Pajero with every 100kg of towball weight approximately 45kg of weight is transferred from the front axle on to the rear axle, so 200kg of towball weight is effectively 290kg of extra weight on the rear coils and the longer the hitch tongue is, the more weight that is transferred from the front to the rear axle. Problem is when weight is transferred off the front axle the front ride height increases and on a lifted vehicle you can easily run out of suspension travel so braking and steering is negatively effected and you can even get unwanted activation of ABS if you stat getting a severe pitching motion happening. Dual Cab Utes suffer from this even more, the larger the rear overhang is the greater the problem.

OJ.

[2bad4u]

Made the decision to take the airbags out. Partly because I don't think I will need them and secondly they aren't the right spec for the suspension I am getting put it.

Car goes in for the suspension and fuel tank in 2 weeks, so I will post back the results.

[Bennyboy]

When I installed my Ultimate Suspension HD set up I chose to ignore their advice to fit HD airbags at the same time based on budget. All was fine with a basic soft floor camper trailer, but when we went to a Coromal wind up type camper (about 150kgs ball weight) plus family of 5 and assosciated paraphernalia in the back it dragged its bum way more than acceptable. Eventually convinced myself airbags were necessary for my application and have never looked back. Car and camper sit level, tows beautifully and everything just feels nice and tight. Only use them when towing, not needed any other time.
I'd say for someone who can spin a spanner try without them, if you decide down the track they're necessary should only take you a couple of hours at home to install, and won't cost anymore to do it later on.

[2bad4u]

When I installed my Ultimate Suspension HD set up I chose to ignore their advice to fit HD airbags at the same time based on budget. All was fine with a basic soft floor camper trailer, but when we went to a Coromal wind up type camper (about 150kgs ball weight) plus family of 5 and assosciated paraphernalia in the back it dragged its bum way more than acceptable. Eventually convinced myself airbags were necessary for my application and have never looked back. Car and camper sit level, tows beautifully and everything just feels nice and tight. Only use them when towing, not needed any other time.
I'd say for someone who can spin a spanner try without them, if you decide down the track they're necessary should only take you a couple of hours at home to install, and won't cost anymore to do it later on.

That's what I'm thinking. I fitted the last set myself so happy to do it again if needed.

[2bad4u]

Got the suspension fitted today and ended up with a 50mm lift at the front and 70mm at the rear. I expect this to settle down a bit over the next few weeks/months. So far happy with the ride, not as harsh as I expected. The next test will be towing the van to see how it sits.

The kit is the Old Man Emu EK3408D2 system (2915 springs front and 3111 rear) rated for 200-400kg load.

[2bad4u]

Finally got around to towing with the new setup...

With around 200kg on the ball plus some gear in the back, the rear end dropped around 50 - 60mm but the front end didn't change at all (previously the front would have come up about 20mm). This left me running at around 540mm on the rear and 550mm at the front. Put the WDH bars on and it levelled everything up nicely. Towed well with no bouncing, so no need for airbags and overall happy with the new setup.

[explorin]

My springs were recently upgraded from HD to EHD under warranty. Even with the EHD and air bags at 30psi the rear still dropped 40mm with the camper on the back...

Good luck!!!

WOW, that is a fair amount of weight then?

i would have thought the bags would have levelled it out a little, at least with 30psi in them.