PB challenger for towing?

[Wonderer]

Hi All, I’m looking for a replacement for my NM Pajero.
I have $16,000 to spend and have been looking at the PB 2010 models with around 180,000kms, I need to be able to tow a 1800kg caravan.

My concern is I’ve read that thier might be a problem with the autos for towing so just putting it out there to see what my fellow caravaners think of the Pb for towing.

My back up plan is a high kilometer NS Pajero but I would like to try the Pb.

Thanks.

[wasarangie]

Just sold a 2010 Challenger manual. Towed a 1900kg camper trailer and a 2500kg full Caravan. The problem was the fuel it used towing the van and the high first gear let it down on the hills. A mate at work tows 2650kg van with an auto PB and has yet to have any problems with the auto lockout, but many others do. And the fuel usage is not good.
A comparison of the vehicles I have towed my van with on fuel. Challenger from Melbourne to Albury used 19lt/100 at 105kph. The Ranger auto 12.3lt/100 at 110kph. I thought the Challenger towed OK and covered many thousands of klm. Then I bought the Ranger, what a difference, so effortless, stable and uses less fuel.

I would look at the Pajero if that was my budget. I think the Challenger many disappoint.

Edit: My Challenger did close to 300,000klm with minimal problems that were not warranty or recall. I did replace the clutch at around 200k. So while it struggled on hill starts it did prove to be reliable.

[Wonderer]

Thanks for your detailed reply, you have answered all my questions.
Might look for NS or NT then.

Thanks.

[SwampFox55]

Just sold a 2010 Challenger manual. Towed a 1900kg camper trailer and a 2500kg full Caravan. The problem was the fuel it used towing the van and the high first gear let it down on the hills. A mate at work tows 2650kg van with an auto PB and has yet to have any problems with the auto lockout, but many others do. And the fuel usage is not good.
A comparison of the vehicles I have towed my van with on fuel. Challenger from Melbourne to Albury used 19lt/100 at 105kph. The Ranger auto 12.3lt/100 at 110kph. I thought the Challenger towed OK and covered many thousands of klm. Then I bought the Ranger, what a difference, so effortless, stable and uses less fuel.

I would look at the Pajero if that was my budget. I think the Challenger many disappoint.

Edit: My Challenger did close to 300,000klm with minimal problems that were not warranty or recall. I did replace the clutch at around 200k. So while it struggled on hill starts it did prove to be reliable.

wasarangie,

You did a lot of K’s on your PB in 8 years! I’m very happy to see it was reliable to 300,000k. How was the driveline when you sold it?

Would you please give us a rundown on the tyre brands, types and distances and which you would recommend.

Cheers,

SF55

[Dicko1]

Thanks for your detailed reply, you have answered all my questions.
Might look for NS or NT then.

Thanks.

See if you can steer clear of dpf...many issues.

[Wonderer]

Hi Dicko1,
I’m still interested in the Pb as I test drove one yesterday and they drive really well.
I only tow a van about 4 times a year so I still want a great daily driver and something I can take off road occasionally.

The Pb seems to tick all the boxes.

Really hard to choose between the two cars.

[Wonderer]

Hi Swampfox55,

How has your Pb treated you? Any troubles so far?

Thanks.

[wasarangie]

wasarangie,

You did a lot of K’s on your PB in 8 years! I’m very happy to see it was reliable to 300,000k. How was the driveline when you sold it?

Would you please give us a rundown on the tyre brands, types and distances and which you would recommend.

Cheers,

SF55

No problem with the engine and it was still running very well. Serviced at 15k intervals, ran a steinbauer module and EGR module
In the last few months had issues with the flashing 4wd indicator lights.
Replaced the clutch at around 200k.
Brakes... one set of disks and 2 sets of pads.
Mickey Thomson MT did 55,000klm.
Factory tyres ran on road for around 80,000klm and still have them in the shed with plenty of tread left.
two sets of Toyo OPAT II first set changed early due to a long trip at 80,000 klm and the second set was still on it, with about 5k worth of life left.
Ran in 4wd all the time.
Transfer case was showing signs of needing a rebuild. To much backlash. Gear box was also starting to make some noise but you could only hear it when the radio was off and on over run.
Wheel alignment was needed more often suspect soft bushes. Usually did that every 20k and balance when ever I thought of it, no cost so why not...
Had issues with the throttle lag after the cooling campaign, but learned to drive around it.
One battery replaced 3 months ago.
Had the 3rd gear syncro done under warranty.
I think that's it apart from aftermarket trouble from ARB bar, rust. HR Towbars, bent it and replaced no questions. Brown Davis tank, cracking 3 times, it did not like corrugations.

Edit: And the seats are crap after a few hours.

[SwampFox55]

No problem with the engine and it was still running very well. Serviced at 15k intervals, ran a steinbauer module and EGR module
In the last few months had issues with the flashing 4wd indicator lights.
Replaced the clutch at around 200k.
Brakes... one set of disks and 2 sets of pads.
Mickey Thomson MT did 55,000klm.
Factory tyres ran on road for around 80,000klm and still have them in the shed with plenty of tread left.
two sets of Toyo OPAT II first set changed early due to a long trip at 80,000 klm and the second set was still on it, with about 5k worth of life left.
Ran in 4wd all the time.
Transfer case was showing signs of needing a rebuild. To much backlash. Gear box was also starting to make some noise but you could only hear it when the radio was off and on over run.
Wheel alignment was needed more often suspect soft bushes. Usually did that every 20k and balance when ever I thought of it, no cost so why not...
Had issues with the throttle lag after the cooling campaign, but learned to drive around it.
One battery replaced 3 months ago.
Had the 3rd gear syncro done under warranty.
I think that's it apart from aftermarket trouble from ARB bar, rust. HR Towbars, bent it and replaced no questions. Brown Davis tank, cracking 3 times, it did not like corrugations.

Edit: And the seats are crap after a few hours.

wasarangie,

Thanks for the detailed history. I’ve checked the Toyos online and they’re too chunky for me - will probably get Pirelli Scorpions.Like yours, my 840s are wearing well at 85,000km with another few grand left.I didn’t use the spare for rotations.I got 2 years from my OEM battery rather than your 7 years!

Do you think that driving in 4WD all the time may have helped wearing out the transfer case (ref. the flashing lights and backlash) or would you expect that wear to be normal considering its off-road use? I spoke to the local DP a couple of years ago about towing in 4H on dry bitumen (ref. forum discussion) and he strongly recommended against it, so I don’t.I do my oil & filter changes at 7,500km.Listened to a new Triton’s engine running today and it was a lot quieter than my PB’s.

SF55

[wasarangie]

Do you think that driving in 4WD all the time may have helped wearing out the transfer case (ref. the flashing lights and backlash) or would you expect that wear to be normal considering its off-road use?

No not at all. There was a noticeable difference for the better towing in 4H. The flashing lights are the sticky sensors on the Transfer case, easily fixed but a pain to get too. The backlash would not be noticed by most drivers. I just keep an eye on all those types of things. Even when new it was border line maximum for backlash along with the rear diff. But they have survived.

I do my oil & filter changes at 7,500km.Listened to a new Triton’s engine running today and it was a lot quieter than my PB’s.

Early on in my ownership I had two tests done on the old oil at 15k services and they both came back within the standard and a recommendation to extend the service life of the oil. So 15k it has been ever since.
The PB engine was never a silent beast, it just did the job even under heavy load. Something that the smaller more powerful engines are yet to prove for many makes.

[Giddyup]

Even Mitsubishi recommends towing in 4h. It's in the handbook that came with the car.

[SwampFox55]

Hi Swampfox55,

How has your Pb treated you? Any troubles so far?

Thanks.

Wonderer,

I’m keeping mine. The big advantage of the PB (and the PS) as a 4X4 is that it’s narrow and that’s good for narrow tracks.I have no problem recommending it for towing up to 2T if you have the fuel injection SW mod that OJ described in Oct 16.That was the best MM SW mod in the past 5 years on my PB.It was like getting a new engine.However, there are other considerations.

You’ve obviously read the auto and towing threads and we’ve covered everything numerous times so there’s little point going over the same old ground which you can readily access. Just have a good read.IMHO don’t buy one that’s got a tow bar fitted (or had it removed) or has been given a hard time (underneath damage) and check the ladder frame for internal salt water corrosion (beach work).If you’re buying privately, don’t buy from an idiot.

I think the critical thing is that the PB’s a 4X4 first and the tow vehicle part is a much lesser secondary consideration. When I first started towing with it I was most disappointed because the engine was less powerful than the vehicle I traded (which I knew) combined with an auto that was just hopeless (which I didn’t know).You could call that my ‘unknown unknown.’I bought the PB intending to buy a 2.5T van because it was advertised as 3T capable.Instead, I was having trouble towing 1.5T up some hills compared with the car I’d just traded - torque and tranny wise.What was good was the chassis.Once the WDS was set one hardly knew the van was on the back, stability wise.This is the single most outstanding feature that I like every time I head-off with the van on the back.

Unlike the guys that load-up their vehicles, I like the spring rates and chassis set-up just as they are, out of the factory. I don’t overload my vehicle and my GCM is usually 3900kg.Though I normally tow at the posted highway limits (to stay with the flow) I’m not loath to just sit on 40 - 60kph in 2 and 3 if that’s what it takes to climb a mountain - have climbed heaps with the van.So, I’ve never had a 2nd gear lockup.Since the SW mod above I am very happy with the PB, even towing but that’s qualified to my 1.5T van.

The 4X4 capability is really outstanding. We’ve done plenty of trips and found it a very practical vehicle. I’ve done a lot of towing work. It’s a great cruiser on highways.It has great carrying capacity in the back - more than a friend’s Prado.I couldn’t buy a Paj simply because I couldn’t fit one in my garage.The MUX wasn’t around when I bought the PB.I’ll never buy a Ford again.Holden has more dealer issues than I need.Only the illiterate buy a Jeep and the others were too expensive, etc.We’ve had several Mitsies and they’ve been tough and reliable.However, that doesn’t excuse the company for fitting the wrong tranny to the Challenger.

At some stage you just have to take stock of the upgrade costs and what you’re going to get out of the dollars spent. If you read my test drive post (of a year ago) you can see that nothing is perfect and if anything, we are spoiled for choice.You can see there’s a lot of enthusiastic owners on this site, more so than some other very well regarded 4X4 brands, so that must mean something.

However, if caravanning is your prime task with the next 4X4 and the prices, mileage, condition and features are much the same and the choice is only Challenger or Pajero (2nd hand), then there is no question about it, get the Pajero.It’s got a bigger engine, more torque and a much better transmission. End of story.I’ve made your decision for you.That is the only logical conclusion one can make.We’ve covered these points so many times, there’s nothing more to say.Buy the best you can afford and don’t be frightened of paying a bit more from a Mitsy dealer than you’d like because they have first pick of the best stock. Buy cheap and most likely you’ll have probs.Best of luck.

Cheers,

PS: In case anyone thinks I’ve been overly harsh towards Jeep owners, checkout this article about the Jeep band’s unreliability that was published in Drive two days after my above post.

https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/2011-on-jeep-grand-cherokee-used-car-review-117267.html?trackLink=homePageReview1

SF55
180212

[Quinno]

What is the SW mod referred to here? A link please. I am not familiar.

Wonderer,

I’m keeping mine. The big advantage of the PB (and the PS) as a 4X4 is that it’s narrow and that’s good for narrow tracks.I have no problem recommending it for towing up to 2T if you have the fuel injection SW mod that OJ described in Oct 16.That was the best MM SW mod in the past 5 years on my PB.It was like getting a new engine.However, there are other considerations.

You’ve obviously read the auto and towing threads and we’ve covered everything numerous times so there’s little point going over the same old ground which you can readily access. Just have a good read.IMHO don’t buy one that’s got a tow bar fitted (or had it removed) or has been given and hard time (underneath damage) and check the ladder frame for internal salt water corrosion (beach work).If you’re buying privately, don’t buy from an idiot.

I think the critical thing is that the PB’s a 4X4 first and the tow vehicle part is a much lesser secondary consideration. When I first started towing with it I was most disappointed because the engine was less powerful than the vehicle I traded (which I knew) combined with an auto that was just hopeless (which I didn’t know).You could call that my ‘unknown unknown.’I bought the PB intending to buy a 2.5T van because it was advertised as 3T capable.Instead, I was having trouble towing 1.5T up some hills compared with the car I’d just traded - torque and tranny wise.What was good was the chassis.Once the WDS was set one hardly knew the van was on the back, stability wise.This is the single most outstanding feature that like every time I head-off with the van on the back.

Unlike the guys that load-up their vehicles, I like the spring rates and chassis set-up just as it is, out of the factory. I don’t overload my vehicle and my GCM is usually 3900kg.Though I normally tow at the posted highway limits (to stay with the flow) I’m not loath to just sit on 40 - 60kph in 2 and 3 if that’s what it takes to climb a mountain - have climbed heaps with the van.So, I’ve never had a 2nd gear lockup.Since the SW mod above I am very happy with the PB, even towing but that’s qualified to my 1.5T van.

The 4X4 capability is really outstanding. So we’ve had heaps of trips in it and it’s been a very practical vehicle and I’ve done a lot of towing work with it.It’s a great cruiser on highways.It has great carrying capacity in the back - more than a friend’s Prado.I couldn’t buy a Paj simply because I couldn’t fit one in my garage.The MUX wasn’t around when I bought the PB.I’ll never buy a Ford again.Holden has more dealer issues than I need.Only the illiterate buy a Jeep and the others were too expensive, etc.We’ve had several Mitsies and they’ve been tough and reliable.However, that doesn’t excuse the company for fitting the wrong tranny to the Challenger.

At some stage you just have to take stock of the upgrade costs and what you’re going to get out of the dollars spent. If you read my test drive post (of a year ago) you can see that nothing is perfect and if anything, we are spoiled for choice.You can see there’s a lot of enthusiastic owners on this site, more so than some other very well regarded 4X4 brands, so that must mean something.

However, if caravanning is your prime task with the next 4X4 and the prices, mileage, condition and features are much the same and the choice is only Challenger or Pajero (2nd hand), then there is no question about it, get the Pajero.It’s got a bigger engine, more torque and a much better transmission. End of story.I’ve made your decision for you.That is the only logical conclusion one can make.We’ve covered these points so many times, there’s nothing more to say.Buy the best you can afford and don’t be frightened of paying a bit more from a Mitsy dealer than you’d like because they have first pick of the best stock. Buy cheap and most likely you’ll have probs.Best of luck.

Cheers,

SF55
180212

[Wonderer]

SF55,
Thanks for such a detailed reply, you have some great knowledge about the Pb.
After reading all your examples about towing and 4wding I you really have made the decision for me.

I will keep looking for the right NX or NT to pop up.
One last trip in my old NM paj then the real hunt will begin.

Thanks for everyone’s opinions.

[SwampFox55]

What is the SW mod referred to here? A link please. I am not familiar.

Copy from my 170128 post:

These are the SW part numbers you need to have installed. They came out well after the overheating recall and OJ mentioned them back in October in another thread.I contacted my dealer a couple of times and they didn’t know anything about them until I persisted and even then there was no assurance until the MUT was connected.I was the first customer at a very large dealership to ask for them to be loaded.I had to pay for the labour.

1. Change of ATF-temperature-control-pattern. New S/W part number 8631 B047 70B.

2. Change the pre-injection amount for torque sudden change improvement to prevent cruise control hunting. New S/W part number 1860B 5555 06.

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=534960#post534960


PS: Labour cost $80.


SF55
180213