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  • Hol
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2018
    • 29
    • Skennars Head 2478

    Limp mode, who has had the problem

    Hi all new to this forum and what great information available.
    How many have had problems with the Challenger going into limp mode.
    Have had our Challenger since new and from early on have had trouble with it going into limp mode on long slow climbs. It happens when towing but I have an idea it happened early on without our van. Then I didn’t know what was happening and it just cleared itself. Any time it happened I reported it at the next service.We caravan frequently now and if there is a substantial mountain range about it will happen. Last year two trips, Early on going out of Sydney toward Coledale beach, it happened on narrow windy road creating a huge queue. Took it to Mitsubishi Wollongong nothing, then going up Bulli pass happened again so took it into Mitsubishi Goulburn also another in Melbourne nothing. Happened again our next trip at Killarney gap going out then twice Near Tamworth coming home.
    Have been driving it with paddles when towing
    Never shows any codes so Mitsubishi not interested. Interestingly a mechanical engineer suggested it will generate a fault code that can only be read when it is active so no code when dealer looks.
    I am in discussions with Mitsubishi now about the problem but they are not really interested. They say vehicle is doing what it should do protecting itself from overheating.
    I say if you are towing under 3 ton as per vehicle specs then vehicle is not doing what it should do if it goes into limp mode
    Next trip I am going to closely monitor the weight of the van ensuring I have written confirmation of weight.
    Would love to know how widespread this problem is.
    Cheers. John
  • BruceandBobbi
    Valued Member
    • Aug 2016
    • 3244
    • Greater Sydney

    #2
    You are not alone with that problem.

    Buy yourself a scan gauge, Ultra gauge or an OBD reader and download Torque Pro to your phone or tablet.

    You will need one of them to monitor your trans temperature. Don't let it labour in gear and try to keep the torque convertor locked by using a lower gear.

    There are others here with more knowledge on the Challenger that hopefully will give advice.

    Regarding towing. I wouldn't tow anything more than 2t with a Challenger and I certainly wouldn't tow 3t with a Pajero and definitely wouldn't tow 3.1t with the Pajero sports.

    Manufacturers are after bragging rights re tow capacity.
    Last edited by BruceandBobbi; 15-01-18, 05:03 PM.

    Comment

    • old Jack
      Regular
      • Jun 2011
      • 11499
      • Adelaide, South Australia.

      #3
      Welcome John,

      You are not alone, almost 6 years of discussing this with MMAL and MMC and they still refuse to do something about it, so over the last 5 years I have studied and tested this problem extensively. Yes, the auto is doing what is is programmed to do, it is going into "self protect" mode, the AT ECU senses that there is too much torque converter slip for too longer period so the AT ECU restricts the trans to 3rd gear, if the TC slip continues it drops the trans into 2nd gear and reduces power, the in dash gear selected display flashes and the only way to reset it is to release the accelerator, shift the trans into Neutral and then back to Drive then gently apply the power back on. Is it dangerous? Sure is but MMAL and MMC do not want to know about it.

      Long history of how to reduce this happening by altering driving style in this thread ; https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...nvertor+lockup

      But there is hope, I am working with MM4x4 on the Auto Mate piggyback AT ECU and I believe we can improve the performance of the auto trans and make it more suitable for towing duties. See this thread;


      OJ.
      2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
      MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

      Comment

      • nj swb
        Resident
        • Jun 2007
        • 7321
        • Adelaide

        #4
        Originally posted by BruceandBobbi View Post
        Manufacturers are after bragging rights re tow capacity.
        I largely agree, but see this as somewhat simplified.

        To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum's character from "Jurassic Park", Mitsubishi were so preoccupied with whether or not it could, they didn't stop to think if it should.

        Yes, these vehicles may be capable of towing in the vicinity of 3T, but under what conditions?

        To tow the big fishing boat across town to the tow ramp a few times each year, OK - it'll do that. To tow a big caravan care-free around the continent? That's a different scenario, and the owner really needs to understand what they're getting into.

        Perhaps they need some form of "duty factor" attached to their towing ratings: 3T irregularly, 2.5T semi-regularly, 2T regularly.

        Originally posted by old Jack View Post
        But there is hope, I am working with MM4x4 on the Auto Mate piggyback AT ECU and I believe we can improve the performance of the auto trans and make it more suitable for towing duties. See this thread;
        https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=59827
        In the near(er) term, lock-up mate to eliminate the slip (while choosing the correct gear with the paddles).
        NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

        Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

        Scorpro Explorer Box

        Comment

        • Boo Boo
          Member
          • Aug 2012
          • 209
          • Kilsyth

          #5
          I had a similar problem with my NS pajero towing our 2 ton van up long hills.
          The car would get very hot then go into the self protect mode and crawl the rest of the way up the hill. I had to pull over to allow car temps to reduce
          I had my radiator removed and found it was 50 percent blocked with mud so I cleaned it, I preiously had no issues at all when not towing.
          I have since installed a transmission temp gauge
          I drove from Melbourne to Eden over Christmas and there are quite a few long hills and no overheating at all. I did watch my transmission temps closely and drove only in 4th gear, I have an Auto.
          I did find the trans temp rise on some of the long hills in 4th gear but as soon as i dropped to 3rd gear the oil temp dropped immediatly.
          So I have changed my driving style which may help you.
          Interestingly when coasting down hills i found the trans temp rose slightly so torque converter must be slipping when coasting
          2008 NS DID, Smart bar and warn winch, Boos Bash plates, ex nsw police car, Safair snorkel and 2 inch OME lift.

          Comment

          • BMChallenger
            Member
            • Jun 2012
            • 211
            • Sunshine Coast, QLD

            #6
            As per discussions on other threads, I have learned so much from the community here as well as from being out on the road.

            I have adjusted everything I do when towing with the challenger. I would still like a bit more power which I'm looking in to. I tow 2.5t and so far have only ever had a limp mode when driving in D not towing up a very long twisting hill climb.

            By the last 1000km of my 6000km just done over Christmas and new year I was travelling at 90-105 consistently and comfortably ambient temps 35-40deg and managed my engine and transmission temps with driving style.

            Scangauge is the best thing I purchased ... but it's also the worst because I'm not obsessed with monitoring my gauges while towing.

            Have a good solid read of the forum, there's a wealth of information here and you will be well supported. OJ is a wise fella and has continued to be the best source of information so listen closely to what he says haha

            Can't wait for my torque converter lockup kit
            2011 PB Challenger LS 5 seat charcoal grey - ARB bull bar, gme uhf, bushskinz underbody plates, ultimate HD 50mm lift, redarc tow pro, haymen reese tow bar, rhino rack platform, bridgestone d697 a/t tyres, custom built off-road tandem axle caravan!

            Comment

            • old Jack
              Regular
              • Jun 2011
              • 11499
              • Adelaide, South Australia.

              #7
              Scangauge II vs Ultagauge MX?
              Ultra gauge MX is now the better choice as it can display more parameters on the screen, it is far easier to see in daylight, it can have programmed alarms and is about 1/3 the cost of an Scangauge II.

              Monitoring your ATF temperatures is a good thing to do when towing, Challenger ATF Over Temp Light comes on at 135C and off at 115C. Running your ATF over 120C for short periods and over 100C for extended periods really shortens the life of the ATF, so by the time the ATF temp light comes on you have already damaged your ATF! I have done some extreme towing test in 40C temperatures towing up to 3,000kg up the SE Freeway just outside Adelaide, it is a 9.6km 430metre climb which is a long stress test and the max ATF I have recorded is 116C when using the auto in manual mode and using my RPMs to speed guide to limit torque converter slip.

              OJ.
              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

              Comment

              • Hol
                Junior Member
                • Jan 2018
                • 29
                • Skennars Head 2478

                #8
                Thanks to all for your help.
                NRMA suggested taking problem to Fair Trading, any thoughts on that.
                Thanks old Jack for advise where did you purchase the Ultragauge, can only find cheap from overseas.
                Have also been advised another transmission cooler would help @ about $500 what are thoughts on that
                Cheers John

                Comment

                • old Jack
                  Regular
                  • Jun 2011
                  • 11499
                  • Adelaide, South Australia.

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hol View Post
                  Thanks to all for your help.
                  NRMA suggested taking problem to Fair Trading, any thoughts on that.
                  Thanks old Jack for advise where did you purchase the Ultragauge, can only find cheap from overseas.
                  Have also been advised another transmission cooler would help @ about $500 what are thoughts on that
                  Cheers John
                  Hi John,

                  I have Scangauge II because 5 1/2 year ago there was not an Ultragauge that would read ATF temps. See previously linked thread and maybe PM the person that started the thread.

                  I would not recommend you fit a second transmission cooler at this stage unless your ATF Temp Light is coming “ON” which you have not reported happening.
                  99.9% of people including many Mitsubishi technicians believe the limp modes are heat related but they are WRONG! The factory ATF cooler is sufficient for most circumstances so unless you have some temperature data to indicate a second cooler is warranted. Do you have a bullbar fitted if so what type. Intercooler bash plate, factory or aftermarket?

                  A few have tried the Fair Trade route but you need to weigh up how much your time is worth and the stress involved.

                  By mid to end of 2018 MM4x4 should have the Auto Mate tested and ready for sale, this will improve the auto’s behaviour but I seriously doubt the Auto Challenger will ever easily be able to tow 3,000kgs in a touring role.

                  OJ.
                  2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                  MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                  Comment

                  • Last Mohican
                    Member
                    • Mar 2016
                    • 119
                    • Sydney

                    #10
                    I think you will find the Ultragague MX has come up in price now and is similarly priced with the scangague II.
                    December/2015 PC LS Challenger (last one)

                    Comment

                    • Hol
                      Junior Member
                      • Jan 2018
                      • 29
                      • Skennars Head 2478

                      #11
                      Bash plate

                      The bash plate (from new) only had two of the three cutouts opened ? so we opened the third one so should improve air flow. Had Mitsubishi bull bar fitted when new.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                      • old Jack
                        Regular
                        • Jun 2011
                        • 11499
                        • Adelaide, South Australia.

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Hol View Post
                        The bash plate (from new) only had two of the three cutouts opened ? so we opened the third one so should improve air flow. Had Mitsubishi bull bar fitted when new.
                        Plenty of airflow through the factory bullbar and opening up the 3rd panel in the factory front plate is also a positive mod. Once you get an Ultragauge or Scangauge then you will be able to see the dramatic difference in ATF's by selecting a lower gear and monitoring the rpm to kph relationship.

                        OJ.
                        2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                        MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                        Comment

                        • Hol
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2018
                          • 29
                          • Skennars Head 2478

                          #13
                          Thanks OJ will order gauge then may have to get back in touch if that’s ok.
                          I have worked out how to read all your posts,what a great help you have been to many people, but may need help to drive for best towing.
                          I initially searched the forum for limp mode and not much came up but looking at the bottom of posts now see lots of links.
                          Hol

                          Comment

                          • Quinno
                            Member
                            • May 2008
                            • 235

                            #14
                            I got the 2010 challenger, manual. When fuel drops to 1/4 tank it triggers limp mode several times a day. Drives me nuts. Started about 2 months ago. Fill it up (about 58L) and it's fine, put 5L in its fine. But drop to 1/4 and bingo - limp mode.
                            2010 PB Challenger. Kings KCRR23 and 55H, sliders, front bar, warn winch, light force HID, 90L aux tank donated from NH Paj.

                            1992 NH GLX, 2.5L TD. Tough Dog lift 2", Alpine Engineering IFS mod kit, DieselGas, Piranha dual battery, ARB bar with Warn M8000, Outlander roof rack & boat rollers, 10ft tinny with 6hp, GME TX4000 UHF & Electophone SSB CB, custom fridge slide & false floor, window tint & Airflow snorkel.

                            Comment

                            • old Jack
                              Regular
                              • Jun 2011
                              • 11499
                              • Adelaide, South Australia.

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Quinno View Post
                              I got the 2010 challenger, manual. When fuel drops to 1/4 tank it triggers limp mode several times a day. Drives me nuts. Started about 2 months ago. Fill it up (about 58L) and it's fine, put 5L in its fine. But drop to 1/4 and bingo - limp mode.
                              This is interesting!
                              What are the precise driving conditions just before it goes into limp mode?
                              What happens when it is in limp mode?
                              How does it get out of limp mode?
                              Any fault codes or dash lights?
                              Any work done on the car over the last few months?

                              OJ.
                              2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                              MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                              Comment

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