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  • kiwi1973
    Valued Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 1178
    • New Zealand

    #16
    The garage has commenced work and has put a mirror in there for a better look - and he currently thinks the leak is coming from a fuel hose that is perished or has a hole. He thinks it would be very unlikely that the fuel pump would suddenly suffer a cracked case. They've put my job aside for now as they're busy, but fingers crossed a fuel pump may not be required after all. I just hope they can get back on it soon - though looks like we may be stuck here a bit longer yet with this being Friday.
    2007 Shogun 3.2DID. UK Diamond Spec. Harrop Eaton front E-locker. MCC Bullbar. Runva 11XP winch. 17" Dotz rims with 32" STT Pro. Koni HT RAID 90 series with +2" EHD Lovells springs. ASFIR protection plates for engine & transmission. DIY steel rocksliders. LRA 81 litre auxiliary fuel tank. Waeco CFX-40. Home made drawers & fridge slide. Dual power - 120a/h AGM with CTEK DC-DC. LED lighting. 43 litre water tank with two electric pumps - one for tap (via filter) & one via heat exchanger.

    Comment

    • old Jack
      Regular
      • Jun 2011
      • 11499
      • Adelaide, South Australia.

      #17
      Originally posted by kiwi1973 View Post
      The garage has commenced work and has put a mirror in there for a better look - and he currently thinks the leak is coming from a fuel hose that is perished or has a hole. He thinks it would be very unlikely that the fuel pump would suddenly suffer a cracked case. They've put my job aside for now as they're busy, but fingers crossed a fuel pump may not be required after all. I just hope they can get back on it soon - though looks like we may be stuck here a bit longer yet with this being Friday.
      Since you can get the leak to occur when using the hand primer on the fuel filter a leaky fuel supply hose sound like a reasonable diagnosis, if it is just a clamped on hose the changing the hose over and fitting new clamps should be straight forward. It could also be the hose fitting into the fuel pump so it is worth checking this at the same time.

      OJ.
      2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
      MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

      Comment

      • erad
        Valued Member
        • Mar 2015
        • 5062
        • Cooma NSW

        #18
        I agree with Old Jack - if the pump had casing cracked, fuel wouldn't leak out as easily as it obviously does according to your video. Hopefully it is only the hose. You may even be able to get a hose made up from a local agriculture supply place.

        This hose in not normally under pressure, so it makes one wonder why it has suddenly carked it. Before you started squirting fuel everywhere, was there evidence of fuel leaking in that area? If there wasn't much fuel there, it is a good sign because almost certainly it is the hose or a fitting associated with the hose. If it was the pump casing, fuel would be sprayed allover the engine by now.

        Comment

        • nj swb
          Resident
          • Jun 2007
          • 7321
          • Adelaide

          #19
          Would that part of the fuel system be under pressure in normal operation, or suction?
          NT Platinum. DiD Auto with 265/70R17 ST Maxx, Lift, Lockers, Lockup Mate, Low range reduction, LRA Aux tank, bull bar, winch, lots of touring stuff. Flappy paddles. MMCS is gone!

          Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

          Scorpro Explorer Box

          Comment

          • Seigried
            Valued Member
            • Apr 2016
            • 732
            • brisbane

            #20
            I believe it is under suction comming into the pump.

            Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

            Comment

            • erad
              Valued Member
              • Mar 2015
              • 5062
              • Cooma NSW

              #21
              Originally posted by nj swb View Post
              Would that part of the fuel system be under pressure in normal operation, or suction?
              It will be under slight suction - the pump is about the same level as the fuel in the tank, and you only have the losses across the filter and the friction losses in the fuel lines to consider. For this reason, it will only leak when you try to prime the main pump. The line would be sucking air, which would prevent the pump from priming, and hence the engine from going.

              It would be worthwhile to look at the hose and if it is split, maybe wrap it in gladwrap or similar (anything which covers the split/hole) as a temporary measure to get you out of your small town and into a better service area. If you do this butchery, it would be better to not pump too hard with the hand pump. This will only make a mess around the leak area, but once the engine fires up, the leakage will probably help to seal it as well. Once you have wrapped the line and fitting, try to crank the engine over with the key, and hand pump only a little. Hopefully the engine will fire up OK and then the gladwrap or whatever will seal enough to get you out of there.
              Last edited by erad; 16-03-18, 11:05 AM.

              Comment

              • benckj
                Valued Member
                • Oct 2017
                • 516
                • Alexandra , New Zealand

                #22
                Does this mean you saw the video and also concur the case appears broken? Anyone else view the video and agree the case looks broken?
                Its hard to say given the position of the camera above the area where leakage occurs. I would think a casing crack would be very unlikely as most failures would be from a rubber seal or hose. It really requires more investigation and hopefully the shop where you have can figure it out. If its any consolation, most of the small town Mechanics are very good with a wide range of vehicles especially diesels.

                jim

                Comment

                • kiwi1973
                  Valued Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 1178
                  • New Zealand

                  #23
                  We'll they've now decided it is the pump after all rather than a split fuel hose. But they still don't have the pump actually out to properly inspect.

                  Meanwhile another diesel mechanic at a place I'm looking at sourcing the new pump from insists that common rail supply pumps just don't fail like this without another cause and that simply fitting a new pump will only see the new pump also fail in short order. He suspects water in the system or other contamination.

                  How long should it take a competent mechanic to remove a supply pump? I know it took a while when I did the Delica, but that was my first time with that sort of job and I was going cautiously.
                  2007 Shogun 3.2DID. UK Diamond Spec. Harrop Eaton front E-locker. MCC Bullbar. Runva 11XP winch. 17" Dotz rims with 32" STT Pro. Koni HT RAID 90 series with +2" EHD Lovells springs. ASFIR protection plates for engine & transmission. DIY steel rocksliders. LRA 81 litre auxiliary fuel tank. Waeco CFX-40. Home made drawers & fridge slide. Dual power - 120a/h AGM with CTEK DC-DC. LED lighting. 43 litre water tank with two electric pumps - one for tap (via filter) & one via heat exchanger.

                  Comment

                  • old Jack
                    Regular
                    • Jun 2011
                    • 11499
                    • Adelaide, South Australia.

                    #24
                    Originally posted by kiwi1973 View Post
                    How long should it take a competent mechanic to remove a supply pump? I know it took a while when I did the Delica, but that was my first time with that sort of job and I was going cautiously.
                    Service Manual says battery, battery tray and inlet manifold must be removed first. Engine must be TDC #1, fuel pump gear must be indexed correctly using timing marks on gears. Engine ECU requires a relearn for new pump. Not a quick job by the look of it.

                    OJ.
                    2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Phillips +100 LB & HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
                    MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

                    Comment

                    • erad
                      Valued Member
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 5062
                      • Cooma NSW

                      #25
                      "Meanwhile another diesel mechanic at a place I'm looking at sourcing the new pump from insists that common rail supply pumps just don't fail like this without another cause and that simply fitting a new pump will only see the new pump also fail in short order. He suspects water in the system or other contamination."

                      Water in the system will cause problems with the injectors for sure, but I doubt that it would cause sudden failure of the pump. If you had a large lump of rust get into the pump, it could cause the pump casing to fail, but I strongly doubt it. My money is still on the hose or the connection to the pump. Surely the "Mechanic" can use a mirror to see where the fuel is leaking from.


                      I agree the if it is the pump casing which ash failed, simply putting a new pump in will cause catastrophe soon after unless the original cause of the failure has been cleared.

                      Whatever, I fear that the pump has to come out anyway to see what has happened. I am praying for your sake that it is simply the hose or its connection which has failed.

                      Comment

                      • kiwi1973
                        Valued Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 1178
                        • New Zealand

                        #26
                        Originally posted by old Jack View Post
                        Service Manual says battery, battery tray and inlet manifold must be removed first. Engine must be TDC #1, fuel pump gear must be indexed correctly using timing marks on gears. Engine ECU requires a relearn for new pump. Not a quick job by the look of it.

                        OJ.
                        Yeah I saw that in the manual and it's all identical to what I did with the Delica except I don't recall whether I had to remove the inlet manifold. I mucked about for ages with the injection timing because I was super anxious about stuffing that part up and having to do it again. Sometimes the Mitsubishi manual calls for removal of items that could actually be left in place. If the inlet manifold does have to come off it took me a while when I did that on the Shogun. But then I'm a slow diy mechanic and I wonder how long it should take an experienced professional.
                        2007 Shogun 3.2DID. UK Diamond Spec. Harrop Eaton front E-locker. MCC Bullbar. Runva 11XP winch. 17" Dotz rims with 32" STT Pro. Koni HT RAID 90 series with +2" EHD Lovells springs. ASFIR protection plates for engine & transmission. DIY steel rocksliders. LRA 81 litre auxiliary fuel tank. Waeco CFX-40. Home made drawers & fridge slide. Dual power - 120a/h AGM with CTEK DC-DC. LED lighting. 43 litre water tank with two electric pumps - one for tap (via filter) & one via heat exchanger.

                        Comment

                        • erad
                          Valued Member
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 5062
                          • Cooma NSW

                          #27
                          I have looked at your video for the umpteenth time and it certainly looks like the casing, not a hose. You won't know until the pump is taken out

                          Comment

                          • kiwi1973
                            Valued Member
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 1178
                            • New Zealand

                            #28
                            Originally posted by erad View Post
                            I have looked at your video for the umpteenth time and it certainly looks like the casing, not a hose. You won't know until the pump is taken out
                            And if that is confirmed then the cause must be determined and eliminated so that the new pump doesn't do the same. If it's water in the fuel I'm not sure how? And wouldn't a light come on the dash? I seem to recall getting a light on the dash previously in Spain related to water being detected. I was then able to release it from the bottom of the fuel filter.

                            They hope to find time to remove pump Monday afternoon.
                            2007 Shogun 3.2DID. UK Diamond Spec. Harrop Eaton front E-locker. MCC Bullbar. Runva 11XP winch. 17" Dotz rims with 32" STT Pro. Koni HT RAID 90 series with +2" EHD Lovells springs. ASFIR protection plates for engine & transmission. DIY steel rocksliders. LRA 81 litre auxiliary fuel tank. Waeco CFX-40. Home made drawers & fridge slide. Dual power - 120a/h AGM with CTEK DC-DC. LED lighting. 43 litre water tank with two electric pumps - one for tap (via filter) & one via heat exchanger.

                            Comment

                            • Kingbrown
                              Valued Member
                              • Apr 2012
                              • 1773
                              • Port Augusta - SA

                              #29
                              Do any of these images help with working out where the leak might be occuring ?

                              Looking at the place where the fuel is issuing, the cap/casing or a gasket on the trochoid (low pressure) feed pump would seem to be likely candidates.

                              Are the three bolts that secure the cap/casing all tight ?

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Click image for larger version

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                              2012 PB Challenger LS Manual

                              Comment

                              • erad
                                Valued Member
                                • Mar 2015
                                • 5062
                                • Cooma NSW

                                #30
                                I reckon KingBrown has hot the spot. Hope so anyway. It almost certainly is on the low pressure side of the pump because the fuel spurts out so easily.

                                Comment

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