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Generation 3 Pajero NM - NP Models 2000 - 2006

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  #1  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
pGero pGero is offline
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Default Advice on suspension

Hi everyone,

I just bought a 2004 Pajero NP a few days ago. My previous vehicle was a 1990 Terrano that I kept for about 10 years, so this is a massive upgrade.
I noticed the front of the car is lower than the back (nose dive). I measured 510mm (back) 460mm (front) between the middle of the rim and the mud guard, which seems quite low.
The car has 270k kms and still running stock coils and shocks so it might be a good time to replace them with a 2" kit.

I 've had a look at popular combo such as Bilstein/Kings but these are a bit too expensive for me. I don't lots of heavy 4wding. Most of the time, I drive on the beach so I thought I should do fine with a cheaper kit.

- Does anyone have experience with this kit ?
https://bit.ly/2H9AwwK
Or this one:
https://bit.ly/31JGTi8

Any feedback welcome,
Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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old Jack old Jack is online now
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Ride heights, I have never seen specifications for Gen 3 ride heights measured from centre wheel hubs to under guards but all Gen 4 are 500-503mm front and 530-533mm rear. Only info in Gen 3 service manual is 235mm ground clearance measured from the transmission forward crossmember and 1835mm to the top of the roof rails, to the ground. Not very accurate as this will vary with tyre diameter.

These suspension kits seem cheap but can end up costing you more as the front struts are not assembled, you will need new top mounts and assembly so this could add $150 to $200 to the price of the parts.
Is there a delivery cost on top of the prices quoted? At 270,000kms the top mounts will be worn so don't be temped to reuse them. You require a special strut compressor to disassemble front struts and reassemble, normal coils spring compressor are the wrong size, not strong enough and very dangerous to use on struts.

Dobinson Coils (green/blue) are fine and are King Coils (yellow) are better, both Australian made quality products, but it is critical that you get the correct part numbers that suit your application as both companies make a range of coils to suit Gen 3 & 4 Pajero. LWB vs SWB, EFI vs Diesel, bullbar vs Nudge bar, winch?, 2nd battery, towbar, rear drawer system all these effect the choice of coil to use. Get the wrong coils and you will end up with the incorrect ride height and spring rate. The IFS and IRS of the Pajero is very sensitive to coils selection.

Webco shockers and struts, not much online about them except there was a government recall on front struts sometime ago.
https://www.productsafety.gov.au/rec...-my2000-onward
Webco are quoting 3 years/100,000km warranty but you would need to check the fine print for conditions.
If these struts and shockers are made in Australia then they will be made by Monroe so the quality is fine, if made elsewhere then the quality is unknown.

Rear coil top and bottom insulators will be stuffed and need replacing, there are not cheap, some aftermarket brands only last 30,000kms before they are stuffed. Genuine rubber or aftermarket urethane can set you back $200 a set of 4.

There are multiple suspension adjusters both front and rear, that could be seized and if seized require replacing by cutting/grinding the bolt shanks so the control arms can be removed and the adjusters pressed out. New bushes and bolts would be required. Do you have access to a workshop press? If alignment adjuster are not replaced then a correct 4 wheel alignment cannot be carried out so not only will tyre's wear rapidly but handling can be severely and dangerously effected once the suspension ride height is changed.

So lifting a Gen 3 or older Gen 4 is a bit of a gamble and a slippery slope once you start, cost of parts and time can easily blow out and if you are paying someone to do the job then labour cost cab quickly elevate as it goes from a 4 to 6 hour job to 20 to 30 hour job!

Sorry to be be bearer of bad news since you are on a tight budget but better to know in advance.

OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

Last edited by old Jack; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:02 PM.
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  #3  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
pGero pGero is offline
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Thanks for all the info OJ, that's really helpful.

I found a few videos explaining the whole process, I've replaced suspensions on cars before so I think I'll go ahead and try to do it myself.

This kit seems decent and comes already assembled. I 'll shop around a bit more and if I don't find anything better think I'll order this next week

The car is a bit old and has done some k's but the undercarriage is very clean. I don't think this car has ever been offroad. There is no rust so hopefully nuts won't be seized.

I'll start spraying the camber adjustment bolts with penetrol right away, hopefully that will help.

Thanks for your help!
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  #4  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
b1benno b1benno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pGero View Post
Thanks for all the info OJ, that's really helpful.

I found a few videos explaining the whole process, I've replaced suspensions on cars before so I think I'll go ahead and try to do it myself.

This kit seems decent and comes already assembled. I 'll shop around a bit more and if I don't find anything better think I'll order this next week

The car is a bit old and has done some k's but the undercarriage is very clean. I don't think this car has ever been offroad. There is no rust so hopefully nuts won't be seized.

I'll start spraying the camber adjustment bolts with penetrol right away, hopefully that will help.

Thanks for your help!
Iím very much in the same boat and also saw this kit. Interested in what you think if you buy them?
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  #5  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
pGero pGero is offline
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I just ordered the kit and will attempt to put it on in a couple of weeks, once it gets there.

Here is a youtube video that I think will be useful for the install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9avQNkfUyPw (that's if the camber adjustment bolts are not stuck...).

I'll update when the job is done.
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  #6  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
dc80 dc80 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Ride heights, I have never seen specifications for Gen 3 ride heights measured from centre wheel hubs to under guards but all Gen 4 are 500-503mm front and 530-533mm rear. Only info in Gen 3 service manual is 235mm ground clearance measured from the transmission forward crossmember and 1835mm to the top of the roof rails, to the ground. Not very accurate as this will vary with tyre diameter.

These suspension kits seem cheap but can end up costing you more as the front struts are not assembled, you will need new top mounts and assembly so this could add $150 to $200 to the price of the parts.
Is there a delivery cost on top of the prices quoted? At 270,000kms the top mounts will be worn so don't be temped to reuse them. You require a special strut compressor to disassemble front struts and reassemble, normal coils spring compressor are the wrong size, not strong enough and very dangerous to use on struts.

Dobinson Coils (green/blue) are fine and are King Coils (yellow) are better, both Australian made quality products, but it is critical that you get the correct part numbers that suit your application as both companies make a range of coils to suit Gen 3 & 4 Pajero. LWB vs SWB, EFI vs Diesel, bullbar vs Nudge bar, winch?, 2nd battery, towbar, rear drawer system all these effect the choice of coil to use. Get the wrong coils and you will end up with the incorrect ride height and spring rate. The IFS and IRS of the Pajero is very sensitive to coils selection.

Webco shockers and struts, not much online about them except there was a government recall on front struts sometime ago.
https://www.productsafety.gov.au/rec...-my2000-onward
Webco are quoting 3 years/100,000km warranty but you would need to check the fine print for conditions.
If these struts and shockers are made in Australia then they will be made by Monroe so the quality is fine, if made elsewhere then the quality is unknown.

Rear coil top and bottom insulators will be stuffed and need replacing, there are not cheap, some aftermarket brands only last 30,000kms before they are stuffed. Genuine rubber or aftermarket urethane can set you back $200 a set of 4.

There are multiple suspension adjusters both front and rear, that could be seized and if seized require replacing by cutting/grinding the bolt shanks so the control arms can be removed and the adjusters pressed out. New bushes and bolts would be required. Do you have access to a workshop press? If alignment adjuster are not replaced then a correct 4 wheel alignment cannot be carried out so not only will tyre's wear rapidly but handling can be severely and dangerously effected once the suspension ride height is changed.

So lifting a Gen 3 or older Gen 4 is a bit of a gamble and a slippery slope once you start, cost of parts and time can easily blow out and if you are paying someone to do the job then labour cost cab quickly elevate as it goes from a 4 to 6 hour job to 20 to 30 hour job!

Sorry to be be bearer of bad news since you are on a tight budget but better to know in advance.

OJ.
Gen 3 ride heights are detailed in the below PDF, under page 3 'Suspension Data'. Access it from the NSW Road Vehicle Descriptor Online (should be same for all states). I wonder if this is what the cops/pits use to determine increased ride height over stock and whether you get a defect notice!

https://myrta.com/rvd/searchRVDResul...bmitValue=view
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  #7  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc80 View Post
Gen 3 ride heights are detailed in the below PDF, under page 3 'Suspension Data'. Access it from the NSW Road Vehicle Descriptor Online (should be same for all states). I wonder if this is what the cops/pits use to determine increased ride height over stock and whether you get a defect notice!

https://myrta.com/rvd/searchRVDResul...bmitValue=view
Excellent find, thank you.

Yes it is the reference that is used to determine the legal ride heights.

So a Gen 3 ride height is front 500/503mm and rear 517/522mm, when measured from the centre of the wheel hub to the underside of the wheel arch in a vertical line.


OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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  #8  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Jasonmc73 Jasonmc73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old Jack View Post
Ride heights, I have never seen specifications for Gen 3 ride heights measured from centre wheel hubs to under guards but all Gen 4 are 500-503mm front and 530-533mm rear. Only info in Gen 3 service manual is 235mm ground clearance measured from the transmission forward crossmember and 1835mm to the top of the roof rails, to the ground. Not very accurate as this will vary with tyre diameter.

These suspension kits seem cheap but can end up costing you more as the front struts are not assembled, you will need new top mounts and assembly so this could add $150 to $200 to the price of the parts.
Is there a delivery cost on top of the prices quoted? At 270,000kms the top mounts will be worn so don't be temped to reuse them. You require a special strut compressor to disassemble front struts and reassemble, normal coils spring compressor are the wrong size, not strong enough and very dangerous to use on struts.

Dobinson Coils (green/blue) are fine and are King Coils (yellow) are better, both Australian made quality products, but it is critical that you get the correct part numbers that suit your application as both companies make a range of coils to suit Gen 3 & 4 Pajero. LWB vs SWB, EFI vs Diesel, bullbar vs Nudge bar, winch?, 2nd battery, towbar, rear drawer system all these effect the choice of coil to use. Get the wrong coils and you will end up with the incorrect ride height and spring rate. The IFS and IRS of the Pajero is very sensitive to coils selection.

Webco shockers and struts, not much online about them except there was a government recall on front struts sometime ago.
https://www.productsafety.gov.au/rec...-my2000-onward
Webco are quoting 3 years/100,000km warranty but you would need to check the fine print for conditions.
If these struts and shockers are made in Australia then they will be made by Monroe so the quality is fine, if made elsewhere then the quality is unknown.

Rear coil top and bottom insulators will be stuffed and need replacing, there are not cheap, some aftermarket brands only last 30,000kms before they are stuffed. Genuine rubber or aftermarket urethane can set you back $200 a set of 4.

There are multiple suspension adjusters both front and rear, that could be seized and if seized require replacing by cutting/grinding the bolt shanks so the control arms can be removed and the adjusters pressed out. New bushes and bolts would be required. Do you have access to a workshop press? If alignment adjuster are not replaced then a correct 4 wheel alignment cannot be carried out so not only will tyre's wear rapidly but handling can be severely and dangerously effected once the suspension ride height is changed.

So lifting a Gen 3 or older Gen 4 is a bit of a gamble and a slippery slope once you start, cost of parts and time can easily blow out and if you are paying someone to do the job then labour cost cab quickly elevate as it goes from a 4 to 6 hour job to 20 to 30 hour job!

Sorry to be be bearer of bad news since you are on a tight budget but better to know in advance.

OJ.
So what I am trying to nut out is, say A Pajero is sprung rear with KCRR35-HD springs & I tow A camper with Bushskinz rear protection, ball weight 150kg's to 200kg's, 30 to 50KG's in the rear.
Then I remove the camper & drive about with couple kids in back seat 60kg's pair of em together forward of the wheels of course & nothing in the back.

Question, does my spring lifted height change dramatically or just the spring rate & it rides stiff without the load??
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  #9  
Old 1 Week Ago
b1benno b1benno is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pGero View Post
I just ordered the kit and will attempt to put it on in a couple of weeks, once it gets there.

Here is a youtube video that I think will be useful for the install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9avQNkfUyPw (that's if the camber adjustment bolts are not stuck...).

I'll update when the job is done.
Have you received your kit yet?
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  #10  
Old 1 Week Ago
old Jack's Avatar
old Jack old Jack is online now
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonmc73 View Post
So what I am trying to nut out is, say A Pajero is sprung rear with KCRR35-HD springs & I tow A camper with Bushskinz rear protection, ball weight 150kg's to 200kg's, 30 to 50KG's in the rear.
Then I remove the camper & drive about with couple kids in back seat 60kg's pair of em together forward of the wheels of course & nothing in the back.

Question, does my spring lifted height change dramatically or just the spring rate & it rides stiff without the load??
King KCRR35-HD is a progressive variable rate coil and if you can let me know what you ride heights are when empty and when loaded I can calculate the spring rates. Progressive coils get firmer the more they compress and are designed for better comfort when unloaded and firmer spring rates when loaded. On a Gen 4 Pajero if you can limit the ride height change to less than 50mm from unloaded to fully loaded to max rear axle weight then you have selected the correct coil for your application.

When fitted to a Gen 4 Pajero the King KCRR-35HD (progressive rate medium duty raised coil) calculates to have;
A spring rate of 17.88 kg/mm in compression at ride height 560mm carrying a rear axle weight of 1184kg.
A spring rate of 18.37 kg/mm in compression at ride height 530mm carrying a rear axle weight of 1493kg.
A spring rate of 18.89 kg/mm in compression at a ride height of 500mm carrying a rear axle weight of 1676kg.
As you can see the spring rate only by about 5% over 60mm of the suspension travel during normal driving conditions or 490kgs of additional static weight.


OJ.
__________________
2011 PB Base White Auto, Smartbar, Cooper STMaxx LT235/85R-16,TPMS, HR TB, 3 x Bushskinz, front +40mm Dobinson , rear +50mm EHDVR Lovells, Dobinson MT struts and shockers, Peddars 5899 cone springs, Windcheater rack, GME UHF, Custom alloy drawer system inc. 30lt Engel & 2 x 30 AH LiFePo batteries + elec controls, Tailgate hi-lift/long struts, Nightbreaker +130LB & Phillips +100 HB, Lightforce 20" single row driving beam LED lightbar, Scanguage II.
MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

Last edited by old Jack; 1 Week Ago at 09:44 AM.
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