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  #11  
Old 02-05-18
Luke68 Luke68 is offline
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Default Lock up converter

Can someone please clarify. My understanding was that when in sport mode all the gears were in lockup up. Am I wrong? If they're not locked up, what's the point of sports mode? And having to get a separate lock up kit is wasteful.
Cheers
Luke
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  #12  
Old 02-05-18
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Pajshomoneroguntero Pajshomoneroguntero is offline
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Originally Posted by Luke68 View Post
Can someone please clarify. My understanding was that when in sport mode all the gears were in lockup up. Am I wrong? If they're not locked up, what's the point of sports mode? And having to get a separate lock up kit is wasteful.
Cheers
Luke
Yes, youíre wrong to believe sports mode locks the tc. The tc will lock when the computer says so given certain parameters being met. The lockup kit, be it a manual style like the Wholesale Automatics or a fully automatic version like M&Mís Lockup Mate, can engage the tc lock earlier and hold it for longer.

The auto in auto mode always chooses a gear too high than optimum for the situation. So the point of sports mode is to regain some control over which and when a gear is selected.

To say that a lockup kit is wasteful seems an off the cuff comment. For instance I can already see around a 1L/100km fuel burn saving using Lockup Mate.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-18
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Hi Luke,

On the Gen 4 NT onwards the Aisin 5 speed auto trans is fitted, it has an electronically controlled torque convertor dampner clutch lockup in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears only. When the trans is in "D" the AT ECU tends to select one gear higher than what is really required so the TC does not lockup in most load conditions. If driving in manual mode and selecting the correct lower gear the TC will lockup if all the conditions are correct, problem is when the conditions change and the TC unlocks and the driver does not manual change down a gear. This results in the unlocked TC slipping and generating heat really fast so the ATF temps skyrocket, the problem is the ATF temps do not decrease as you go down the other side of the hill as the AT ECU unlocks the TC so the TC continues to slip.

Fitting a lockup kit and using it correctly when in manual shift mode will result in lower ATF temps and reduced fuel consumption.

There are 3 TC lockup kits that are available from;
1. Wholesale Automatics, this is PWM controlled electronics and 100% driver controlled.
2. Richards Auto, this is PWM controlled electronics with speed sensitive "off" control, so you can't forget to disable it but you still have to select it "ON"
3. Lockup Mate by MM4x4 is PWM controlled electronics with speed, engine load and accelerator position sensing to both engage and disengage the TC lockup fully automatically for the gear you have selected? Just turn it on and as soon as you start using manual gear shifts it will lock and unlock the TC without bypass the factory projections that the AT ECU provide. This is the newest and best option, developed by forum member M&M. It is also the cheapest of the 3 kits available.

OJ.
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Last edited by old Jack; 03-05-18 at 07:15 AM. Reason: Grammar correction
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  #14  
Old 02-05-18
Flying Flying is offline
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Please make a lock up mate for the PS next M&M!
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  #15  
Old 02-05-18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying View Post
Please make a lock up mate for the PS next M&M!
The 8 speed Aisin auto in the Pajero Sport, already locks the TC in 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th gear and the TC lockup operational profile is quite complex so it could be very difficult to do a Lockup-Mate for this auto trans, it may not even be possible at all.

OJ.
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  #16  
Old 02-05-18
Luke68 Luke68 is offline
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Default TC lock up

Thanks Old Jack. That is the best and most simplest explanation that anyone has given. Sorry for the "off the cuff" comment. I'm coming from a manual only 4wd so don't really understand these automatics. I've seen too many people do mods on their vehicles because they think it's the best thing ever. Hence my "off the cuff" comment.
Now, can you please let me know if this lockup mod will help in the auto retardation down hills if still locked up?
I'll be towing a caravan/camper later in the year and would like To get it fitted if it does a good job?
I know I can't compare Manual V Auto with braking.
Cheers
Luke
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  #17  
Old 02-05-18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke68 View Post
Thanks Old Jack. That is the best and most simplest explanation that anyone has given. Sorry for the "off the cuff" comment. I'm coming from a manual only 4wd so don't really understand these automatics. I've seen too many people do mods on their vehicles because they think it's the best thing ever. Hence my "off the cuff" comment.
Now, can you please let me know if this lockup mod will help in the auto retardation down hills if still locked up?
I'll be towing a caravan/camper later in the year and would like To get it fitted if it does a good job?
I know I can't compare Manual V Auto with braking.
Cheers
Luke
Hi Luke,

A locked torque convertor does provide a reasonable amount of engine braking when going downhill and it also circulates the ATF through the ATF cooler so you get a decrease in ATF temperature. The factory program has the TC unlocked when going downhill so the ATF temperatures do not decrease until you are on the flat and the TC locks up so in hilly terrain where the factory TC remains unlocked for extended periods of time so the ATF just gets hotter and hotter. The Challenger is my first auto 4wd after 30+years of manual 4wds, whilst I really appreciate the auto's torque multiplication effect off-road which compensates for the high low range gearing and the flat spot/turbo lag of a CRD engine the auto's electronic control has had me frustrated since new and I have been looking for a solution. What I really wanted is an AT ECU reprogram but this has proved impossible to achieve. MM4x4 Lockup-Mate piggy back ECU goes a long way to fixing most of the issues with the AT and Auto-Mate should fix even more.

OJ.
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MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .

Last edited by old Jack; 03-05-18 at 07:19 AM. Reason: Grammar correction
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  #18  
Old 03-05-18
&Roo &Roo is offline
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Hi Old Jack

Thanks for the explanations - Iím in a pretty steep learning curve in this space and theyíve been a great help.

I received my ultraGuage a few days ago and am now watching trans temps as I drive getting a feel for shift patterns that will look after the AT.

My big question ... other than sound and feel. Is there a way I can tell when the TC is locked vs. unlocked?


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  #19  
Old 03-05-18
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Originally Posted by &Roo View Post
Hi Old Jack

Thanks for the explanations - Iím in a pretty steep learning curve in this space and theyíve been a great help.

I received my ultraGuage a few days ago and am now watching trans temps as I drive getting a feel for shift patterns that will look after the AT.

My big question ... other than sound and feel. Is there a way I can tell when the TC is locked vs. unlocked?


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Unless you have a TC indictor like Lockup-Mate does or a voltmeter connected to the AT ECU you can have trouble detecting when the TC is locked or unlocked. Vehicle speed vs rpm for a given gear is the next best indicator. In 4th gear 80kph/2140rpm, 100kph/2670rpm, 110kph/2940rpm and in 5th gear 100kph/1950pm, 110kph/2150rpm and the TC is locked up( there will be some minor variance to these numbers depending on speedo accuracy, tyre wear and tyre pressures. When the TC unlocks then rpm will increase several hundred rpm and is often mistaken for an automatic gear down shift. ATF temps will also increase at least 15C within a short time and continue to increase the longer the TC is unlocked. These figures are for a NT,NW and early NX with standard diameter tyres and 3.917 diff ratios.

OJ.
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MM4x4 Auto Mate, Serial No 1 .
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  #20  
Old 03-05-18
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m_and_m m_and_m is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by &Roo View Post
Hi Old Jack
My big question ... other than sound and feel. Is there a way I can tell when the TC is locked vs. unlocked?
Another way to tell is to gentle push the accelerator little. If the RPM stays the same it's locked. If the RPM immediately starts to go up - the TCC is slipping so it's unlocked.

If you keep pushing the accelerator while it's locked, you suddenly notice it jump in RPM - this is it unlocking.
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