Shocks or Shocks & Springs

[ron.dunn]

I've read every post I can find on Pajero Sport suspension, and I think I'm actually less certain than when I began.

I'm looking to build a road-oriented touring vehicle. 90% of its life will be on sealed roads. The remaining 10% will range from Blue Rag Track to the road that runs along side the Darling from Wilcannia. No plans for climbing rocky cliffs or swimming through mud. No perceived need for additional ground clearance. I'm not planning to tow, but I'll carry a boot full of luggage (clothes etc) while touring, nothing more than a typical car boot would carry.

No bar on front, no roof rack, only a towbar on the back to occasionally drag my tinnie.

I currently drive an Outlander, and the suspension is sh*t. It pitches, rolls and yaws around corners, all at the same time. The Pajero Sport I've ordered isn't as bad, but still isn't up to the standard I want.

My feeling is that most of the problem is poor choice of factory shock absorbers, and I've been thinking of replacing them with Bilstein B6s or Tough Dog Foam Cell adjustables. I'm leaning towards the Tough Dogs because I like the idea of "adjustable", so that I can tune them to my preferences over time.

My dilemma is, will I benefit from changed springs? There's no additional weight up front, I don't see the need for additional height, the rear won't be heavily loaded, and I'm not towing anything significant.

I don't mind paying if I'll get a benefit ... but based on your experience, will just shock absorbers meet my need?

[Paj11]

I am not sure you could compare tough dog to bilstein, a lot of people I talk to call them rough dog.

[old Jack]

Hi Ron,

Most aftermarket shockers are designed for heavy duty coils.
Based on the info you have provided, you may like to consider retaining the factory coils on the front and maybe changing rear coils to King KCRS-23 coils on the rear.

For general purpose work up to light/medium off road then OzTec struts and shockers are worth looking at.

OJ.

[nj swb]

Any Range Rover fan will tell you that body roll isn't a problem - it's how well the suspension system controls the movement.

Manufacturers are often driven by price, so a choice between two different suspension setups (considered "low priority" by most marketing types) will often come down to whichever is cheapest - so it wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that your PS shock absorbers were chosen for price rather than performance.

It doesn't sound like you have any huge need for different springs, so I think its reasonable to start with only upgrading your shock absorbers.

On this topic, I'm biased. When I bought my NT with 20k km on the clock it had Tough Dog foam cell shocks that would fade on the highway. I can't say that these shocks weren't abused mercilessly by the previous owner, but to replace aftermarket shocks in a vehicle with 20k km on the odometer wasn't an expense I was expecting - so I can't imagine any circumstance under which I would ever spend my money on Tough Dog.

Notwithstanding the above, we have many members with Tough Dog shocks who are more than happy - so don't make any decisions based purely on my experience.

I've never bought Bilstein, but did consider it. At the time, I went Old Man Emu instead, and no longer have those, either.

FWIW, I currently have Dobinson MRR shocks front and rear. I have no complaints about the day to day performance, but I do have severe doubts about Dobinson's ability to support this product - so I wouldn't recommend these either.

[DID Dash]

Perhaps wait until you take delivery of your Pajero Sport and live with it for a bit. You might find it quite acceptable. My wife has a current model Outlander and it rides harsh and crashes about. My Pajero Sport rides much more comfortably with softer ride and more supple through the bumps, spoon drains etc. The King Springs and OE shocks are a good match. I much prefer the Pajero Sport ride quality over the Outlander.

[ron.dunn]

Thank you, some great advice in this thread.

[glasgerion]

Hi Ron,

I am in a similar position with suspension needs on my PS.

What did you end up doing?

[old Jack]

Hi Ron,

I am in a similar position with suspension needs on my PS.

What did you end up doing?

Hi Glasgerion,

Q1. Have you ant extra weight permanently over the front axle?
Bullbar, winch, 2nd battery, underbody guards or do you intent to fit any of these?

Q2. Doe you have any permanent extra weight over the rear axle?
Drawer system, fridge, aux battery, tools, recovery gear?
When you do load the rear up, how much weight is this?

Q3. Do you tow? If so what is the towball download?

Q4. Are you happy with the current ride and comfort of the factory suspension?

Q5. How many kms on the PS?

OJ.

[glasgerion]

Hey OJ,

Current my PS is completely stock, and the only planned additions are tow bar and possible a second battery. It will be used 95% on-road unladen, and 5% off-road, mostly sand with pretty typical loads of maybe 100kg. With a small amount of towing every now and then. Since most offroad is on sand, I wouldn't mind getting a little bit more clearance as well.

1. Only second battery planned.

2. Tow bar.

3. Yes a boat that weighs about 1800kg, so tow ball weigh of about 150kg.

4. I am not happy with the current suspension at all. It feels very much like the shocks are doing nothing. The ride is very bouncy, bordering on the line of feeling dangerous at high speed. When you push down on the car there appears to be no signs of damping. I assumed the shocks had failed when I first drove it, but they are not leaking, and there are no obvious issues that could cause this. I have never driven another PS, but I am assuming they are not all like this.

5. 110,000km

Would love any help you could provide in solving this.

Jimi

[old Jack]

Hey OJ,

Current my PS is completely stock, and the only planned additions are tow bar and possible a second battery. It will be used 95% on-road unladen, and 5% off-road, mostly sand with pretty typical loads of maybe 100kg. With a small amount of towing every now and then. Since most offroad is on sand, I wouldn't mind getting a little bit more clearance as well.

1. Only second battery planned.

2. Tow bar.

3. Yes a boat that weighs about 1800kg, so tow ball weigh of about 150kg.

4. I am not happy with the current suspension at all. It feels very much like the shocks are doing nothing. The ride is very bouncy, bordering on the line of feeling dangerous at high speed. When you push down on the car there appears to be no signs of damping. I assumed the shocks had failed when I first drove it, but they are not leaking, and there are no obvious issues that could cause this. I have never driven another PS, but I am assuming they are not all like this.

5. 110,000km

Would love any help you could provide in solving this.

Jimi

Hi Jimi,

Q1. What are your ride heights when measured from the centre of the wheel hub to the under side of the wheel arch when measured in a vertical line, PS must be parked on flat level ground or as nears as possible, measurements in mm please, on all 4 wheels?

Q2. Do you want a suspension lift or are you happy with factory ride heights of 520mm front and 559mm rear?

OJ.

[glasgerion]

Hi Jimi,

Q1. What are your ride heights when measured from the center of the wheel hub to the under side of the wheel arch when measured in a vertical line, PS must be parked on flat level ground or as nears as possible, measurements in mm please, on all 4 wheels?

Q2. Do you want a suspension lift or are you happy with factory ride heights of 520mm front and 559mm rear?

OJ.

1. Here are the measured ride heights. The ground must have been sloping from right to left, hence the consistent 7mm difference between the left and right measurements.
FL = 495
FR = 502
RL = 544
RR = 551

2. Like I mentioned I wouldn't mind a little bit more clearance in the sand, but not a must since the stock 218mm is pretty similar to everything else on the market. My ride height seems to be substantially less then you mention. Is that what height it should be?

Jimi

[old Jack]

1. Here are the measured ride heights. The ground must have been sloping from right to left, hence the consistent 7mm difference between the left and right measurements.
FL = 495
FR = 502
RL = 544
RR = 551

2. Like I mentioned I wouldn't mind a little bit more clearance in the sand, but not a must since the stock 218mm is pretty similar to everything else on the market. My ride height seems to be substantially less then you mention. Is that what height it should be?

Jimi

Hi Jimi,

Measurements for ride heights are what MMAL supplied when they registered to import the Pajero Sport in to Australia.

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/47316_1167071_RVD_12Feb2016135344.cmd

So if we average out the ride heights you would have just 500mm front so 20mm lower than factory specification and 548mm rear 11mm lower than factory standard. The fact that the ride heights have sagged over a 5 year/110,000km period on a stock vehicle that has had light to medium use, indicates to me the coil spring rates are too low for the axle weights.

Upgrading the front and rear coil spring rates and the struts and shockers will firm up the suspension compared to what it is now so are you prepared to accept the suspension will be firmer riding?

What tyre pressures are you running?

OJ.

[glasgerion]

Hi Jimi,

Measurements for ride heights are what MMAL supplied when they registered to import the Pajero Sport in to Australia.

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/47316_1167071_RVD_12Feb2016135344.cmd

So if we average out the ride heights you would have just 500mm front so 20mm lower than factory specification and 548mm rear 11mm lower than factory standard. The fact that the ride heights have sagged over a 5 year/110,000km period on a stock vehicle that has had light to medium use, indicates to me the coil spring rates are too low for the axle weights.

Upgrading the front and rear coil spring rates and the struts and shockers will firm up the suspension compared to what it is now so are you prepared to accept the suspension will be firmer riding?

What tyre pressures are you running?

OJ.

Hi OJ,

That seems like a large amount of sag for a vehicle that looks like its never been off-road. Is this common on the PS?

I would be quite happy for the suspension to be firmer, I find it far to soft, especially compared to my Hilux.

Ive been running the tires firmer then standard in a fruitless attempt to offset the soft suspension. 34 front 36 rear.

Jimi