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Techniques Winching - Recoveries - Chainsaw Safety - Proper aproach to 4wding etc

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  #11  
Old 18-07-18
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Originally Posted by Pajshomoneroguntero View Post
I don't think it is a realistic proposition to carry every bit of gear to cover off on every conceivable risk, just too heavy and/or bulk. The Deadman piqued my interest given its light weight and low encumbrance. It isn't lost on me either that carrying the weight of recovery options adds to the likelihood of getting stuck in the first place. Just need to find that balance.

Agree 100%, I to look at the weight and size of everything I carry and what it can be used for. Ideally everything should have at least 2 or 3 uses otherwise I question if I really need to carry it at all. I also look at how often in the past I have needed to actually use the items and was there an alternative bit of gear I could have used.


An example is, I stopped carrying a second full spare wheel and tyre assemble about 20 years ago as I had no tyre problems for over 7 years since running LT 10 ply tyres and low tyre pressures. I now carry a spare tyre carcass, tube and plug repair kit, saving the weigh of a wheel rim.



Some of the vehicles I have seen struggling to get themselves out of trouble have looked like they are straight out of the ARB or TJM catalogue!
Better to have the gear that is multi use and knowledge to adapt and use it than all the flash "correct" gear and no idea on how to use it.



OJ.
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  #12  
Old 18-07-18
DAUMULLER DAUMULLER is offline
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A Star picket is cheap and cheerful. You may have to leave it behind once recovered if unable to remove from ground.
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  #13  
Old 18-07-18
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A Star picket is cheap and cheerful. You may have to leave it behind once recovered if unable to remove from ground.
And heavy. I'd have to leave some alcohol at home.
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Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

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  #14  
Old 18-07-18
wazza5 wazza5 is offline
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Quote:
Quote from OJ

An example is, I stopped carrying a second full spare wheel and tyre assemble about 20 years ago as I had no tyre problems for over 7 years since running LT 10 ply tyres and low tyre pressures. I now carry a spare tyre carcass, tube and plug repair kit, saving the weigh of a wheel rim.
I am interest if the weight and space required of transporting the tools needed (bead breaker, 2/3 tyre levers, rubber mallet, etc) to change remove/replace a tyre and tube to off-set the weight of carrying a full second spare. If you have not needed to use a second spare over the years you have been carrying around the tools needed to fit the tube and tyre. The tools may have taken up more room/weight than just carry a full second spare.
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Old 18-07-18
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Originally Posted by wazza5 View Post
I am interest if the weight and space required of transporting the tools needed (bead breaker, 2/3 tyre levers, rubber mallet, etc) to change remove/replace a tyre and tube to off-set the weight of carrying a full second spare. If you have not needed to use a second spare over the years you have been carrying around the tools needed to fit the tube and tyre. The tools may have taken up more room/weight than just carry a full second spare.
No. You should have those tools to repair a tyre before you carry a second spare. A second spare is only required if you damage a tyre beyond repair, and effectively end up without a spare.

Carrying a second spare is no substitute for being able to repair a puncture.
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Project: NJ SWB. 285/75R16 ST Maxx, 2" OME suspension, 2" body lift, ARB 110, 120l tank, bullbar, scratches, no major dents. Fully engineered in SA. NW DiD & auto in place - a long way to go....

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Old 18-07-18
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And I always hear this rubbish about if it doesn't have 2 or more uses it isn't needed. Well I need to inform you, if you need it, then you need it, no matter how many uses it may have. Much like having a second spare.....its all relative. Risk verses consequence.
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  #17  
Old 19-07-18
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Originally Posted by sharkcaver View Post
And I always hear this rubbish about if it doesn't have 2 or more uses it isn't needed. Well I need to inform you, if you need it, then you need it, no matter how many uses it may have. Much like having a second spare.....its all relative. Risk verses consequence.
There are no hard and fast "rules" on the multiple use theory if there was we would be only drinking water and eating dehydrated food and where is the fun in that!

When travelling, room is at a premium and weight is critically limited so there must be a compromise. I see people traveling with all sorts of tyre repair gear including slide hammers and bead breakers, I see people with 2 ruined spares on rear carriers and more on the roof, so I wonder if they were carrying much less weight and using more appropriate tyres, pressures and speed for the terrain they are traversing, would they have the same problems?

I do not carry a bead breaker as I can use a bottle jack to do this job, sure it is much slower but the last time I had to break a tyre bead was in the mid 1980's. My tyre compressor and plug repair kit fits into a tool box 350mm x140mm X 120mm all under 4kgs, 3x 600mm light steel alloy tyre levers nest together neatly and take up little room but do weigh about 500 grams each. With this gear I can repair more than 2 flat tyres if I need to, 99.9% of the time it is for repairs on fellow travelers tyres and not my own.

OJ.
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Last edited by old Jack; 19-07-18 at 12:11 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
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Old 19-07-18
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With this gear I can repair more than 2 flat tyres if I need to, 99.9% of the time it is for repairs on fellow travellers tyres and not my own.
And that one time you need it on your own tyre? Like I said, risk verses consequence.
And like you say no hard and fast rules.

The issue being people quote the more than 2 uses proverb often and religiously. Its rubbish. No hard and fast rules indeed.

I dont carry (or own) a set of tyre levers - but I should. Maybe I can second use them as a toasting fork and leave my jaffle iron behind cause that has only one use.
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  #19  
Old 19-07-18
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Just goes to prove we are all different in the priorities we have and choices we make.

It what makes the world an interesting place and this an informative public forum.

After all I drive a Challenger with a Smartbar and Cooper tyres, and drink light beers from cans and red wine from 2 litre Casks when on trips!
I will stop and offer to anyone and I hope someone would do the same for me if I needed it.


OJ.
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  #20  
Old 20-07-18
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I can offer some personal experience of the Lan-Cor ground anchor.

I actually got one of these at a slight discount a few years ago and was supposed to give a review of it, with photos, being used somewhere offroad overseas. Problem was that most the terrain we encountered in places like the Balkans was hard and stony ground. We weren't actually truly stuck anywhere there, but rather went to the effort to set it all up to take the photos - but couldn't get it to drill into the stony ground and had to give up. Up to that point in time I wondered if the design concept was flawed and the product far less useful than it initially seemed.

However, upon returning to NZ, where the Lan-Cor is made incidentally, I've found that it is much more common that we encounter the type of soft/grassy/muddy terrain in which the Lan-Cor really does work. Once you get used to setting it up and know how far down it needs to drill it is capable of working as intended and I have now used it several times to successfully recover my vehicle. Still, there was a situation when I needed to recover my vehicle over on the West Coast in NZ and needed a ground anchor, but the terrain there was too hard and stony to even attempt bothering with the Lan-Cor. So the bottom line is that it's hit or miss.

I then did some research on ground anchors and found that the military generally doesn't rely on fancy ground anchor designs for its offroad vehicle recoveries. They typically use pickets in various arrangements roped together. The most common arrangement is 3 pickets, then a metre back 2 pickets and another metre back 1 picket. Strong rope is used to lash this all together, from the top of the first set of pickets to the bottom of the second set. And from the top of the second pair to the bottom of the final picket. This arrangement is extremely effective - the pickets don't pull forward because if you can picture the rope lashing arrangement the leverage required to move the pickets would be tremendous. However, the weak link in this system is where you attach your winch line. If you put it just around one picket (or angle iron) in the front it will just bend in half (but it won't pull forward due to the rope lashings!).

If you Google 'ARB Terra Firma' you should see a photo of an interesting ground anchor design that could be easily home made. This design has a frame (channel steel maybe) that you bang in a few pickets. Because you attach your winch line to the frame you spread the load across the frame and accordingly all the pickets, such that one or two at the front don't bear all the force and bend. I've been meaning to try building a prototype to test.
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