New NX suspension

[oscaroo]

Give it a year and please report again on the rear heights please. Mine was also around 55/56 when just installed and now are about 54.5cm

Why was your rear left 3cm shorter when the van was attached? Is that where then"jerry cans" go?

[Buckos]

Sorry Oscaroo, terrible typo, now corrected!! Thought I checked all those numbers...

[PaulMcG]

Hello Paul

I've been following your process here with much interest. Thanks for all of your detailed final measurements, they will provide a great reference for when I undertake a similar upgrade. I'll also be keen to see your evaluation on the ride comfort once after you've done a few miles, particularly from the perspective of a backseat passenger.

The height of your DO35 pin and coupling are of particular interest to me. You made reference earlier to them being to the top of the pin, and the top of the coupling cover plate, I think. Would you be able to advise the measurement to the top of the pin from your towbar tongue. Also the measurement that the top of the hitch cover plate is above where it mounts to the drawbar mounting plate. I've tried to find these dimensions for the DO35 online, but it appears there are a few different versions.

Finally, are you using the standard Mitsubishi towbar hitch, and is it orientated in it's higher or lower position.

I'm using an ALKO offroad hitch, and an HR WDH, so once I know your figures, I can work back from there. Your thorough approach posting all of your weights, measurements and details is much appreciated.

Thanks
Paul

[Buckos]

Hello PaulMcG,

I have been out and done some measuring for you and got the following results: Top of the pin from the upper surface of the towbar tongue is 80mm. Top of hitch cover plate above where it mounts to the drawbar mounting plate is a little more difficult.

I don't know what model DO35 mine is, but it was installed on the caravan when new in late 2015, if that helps you identify it. The drawbar mounting plate has 6 bolts holding it on and the handbrake lever is at the rear of this plate, it is about 10mm. thick as near as I can measure. The hitch mechanism itself is somewhat forward of the plate, as you would be aware, so there is some parallax error when trying to measure heights. I have measured, as best I can, the height of the top, fixed, plate - not the one that slides forward to lock onto the pin - which is the plate on which the locking pin with its little rubber cover sits, above the drawbar mounting plate at 75mm. However, I have to warn that it could be as much as 80mm. due to the distance between the mounting plate and hitch cover. I levelled the hitch cover plate with spirit level to measure it. Hope this helps!!

I am using the standard Mitsubishi towbar hitch, fitted new by the dealer and it is mounted in the lower position. This means that the factory label with the legal towing weights and downloads is facing upwards. I am unable to use the towbar in the inverted, or higher, position as the van was specifically built around the same towbar on our 2010 NT Pajero.

Hope this helps and if you have any other queries, happy to help.

Regards,

Paul B.

[PaulMcG]

Hello Paul B

Thanks for your detailed reply. All of those measurements will be really helpful to me.

All the best
Paul

[oscaroo]

Gday Old Jack.

So I had the car weighed. $40 later …

Front is at 1220kg
Rear is at 1320kg.
Rear includes personal contents of 50kg (pram, two child seats and a box of crap I was picking up from work of 10kg). Tank of fuel was full-ish (I had drive 30kgs since filling). No passengers were in the car at the time of weighing

Front springs are KCFR34HHD
Rear are KCFR35.

with your magical spreadsheet, how tall should the EBH be?

Hi Oscaroo,

Ideally if you could get a weight of both your axles I can add this to my files so it can be shared with others, and used to double check my calculations.


OJ.

[old Jack]

Gday Old Jack.

So I had the car weighed. $40 later …

Front is at 1220kg
Rear is at 1320kg.
Rear includes personal contents of 50kg (pram, two child seats and a box of crap I was picking up from work of 10kg). Tank of fuel was full-ish (I had drive 30kgs since filling). No passengers were in the car at the time of weighing

Front springs are KCFR34HHD
Rear are KCFR35.

with your magical spreadsheet, how tall should the EBH be?

Hi Oscaroo,

I am assuming you have KCRR-35 rear coils and the KCFR-35 is a typo.

My calculation tables have the front ride height at 544mm, but this will depend on what coil insulators you have fitted and their condition, and the manufacturers tolerance are a few % so actual ride heights could be up to 10mm different.
Rear ride heights calculate at 548mm but I can only calculate based on a linear rate of change of progressive rate coils. However from experience with King KCRR-35HD progressive rate coils tend to ride about 10mm higher than the calculations with these weights but they have a 25% greater spring rate than the KCRR-35. So my guess is 555mm, once again it is not an exact science due to the progressive coils, which insulators and their condition are fitted and the manufacturing tolerances of the coils.

In an ideal world it would be great to have fitted all different coils and done ride heights vs axle loads so we know what happens to the ride heights at certain axle loads. So this is why feedback from others is critical, thanks for doing a weigh in. $40 is outrageous, this is definitely a Sydney Tax, I can get these done in Adelaide at the local sand and metal yard that has a Public Weighbridge for $15.

OJ.

[oscaroo]

Hi Oscaroo,

I am assuming you have KCRR-35 rear coils and the KCFR-35 is a typo.

OJ.

Yes, sorry I did mean KCRR35
Thanks for the numbers. They're in the ballpark of what I have so .. I guess it's all okay then. Next time i'm at a fully flat carpark i'll measure again very carefully. Last time I measured the fronts were 53/54 and the rears 54.5/55.

I would have preferred king springs "4 or 5cm lift" to be up from 53.3cm where the rear is meant to be rather than the 50cm most people have the rear worn down to. Good to know the KCRR35HD would have put me at 55.5cm at the back. What would the comfort king coils have done? The ones that end in T

Ohwell, i'll live with it. After all theres 31cm of clearance to the rear diff and with the airbags I can harden up the suspension to avoid losing any clearance when I load it with things, or to stiffen it so much that it wont flex at all if I want to tip-toe around obstacles.

yay Sydney tax! :s

[old Jack]

Yes, sorry I did mean KCRR35
Thanks for the numbers. They're in the ballpark of what I have so .. I guess it's all okay then. Next time i'm at a fully flat carpark i'll measure again very carefully. Last time I measured the fronts were 53/54 and the rears 54.5/55.

I would have preferred king springs "4 or 5cm lift" to be up from 53.3cm where the rear is meant to be rather than the 50cm most people have the rear worn down to. Good to know the KCRR35HD would have put me at 55.5cm at the back. What would the comfort king coils have done? The ones that end in T

Ohwell, i'll live with it. After all theres 31cm of clearance to the rear diff and with the airbags I can harden up the suspension to avoid losing any clearance when I load it with things, or to stiffen it so much that it wont flex at all if I want to tip-toe around obstacles.

yay Sydney tax! :s

Sorry to hear you did not get the lift you were after. The IFS and IRS on the Gen 3/4 Pajero is very sensitive to coil selection and it is easy to get wrong, especially if you are chasing specific ride heights.

King Comfort "T" coils are tapered wire progressive rate and these coils are lighter duty than the KCRR-35.

The KCRR-35HD would have given you a higher rear ride height around the 565mm mark and a effective spring rate bout 15% greater for the same rear axle weight.

OJ.

[Two Emms]

As a bit of a related question as I am currently thinking of 40-50mm lift for my nx after measuring the rear wheels at 484mm with only 30kg in the back
I realise the lift will be above standard height not the sagged height I currently have.
Will probably opt for king springs (comfort as a lot of my driving is on bitumen ) and bilstiens. Not sure of finer details yet. The lift would be good when driving around the Vic high country.
Bought a cheap set of bathroom scales from Kmart and am currently weighing all the various items to be carried so as to get an accurate idea all weights involved. Added to this will be the 110kg ball weight of my camper trailer.
Good news is that I will take a while to get the finances together for the suspension so have plenty of time to research
But I digress......
Does a 50mm lift require any change to bump stops?? I seem to recall reading here somewhere about springs being fully compressed before the arms hit the bump stops (not good). My instincts are that I will never compress the spring fully but I've been wrong before

[oscaroo]

Apparently Bilstein a can limit suspension droop at the front more than standard.

Apparently there can be a knocking sound heard at the back with Bilstein shocks as I think there's a bolt hole that's bigger than standard or something or other. Some people have the knocking sounds some don't.

Kcrr35 for me give just a tiny lift past OEM height with the little (I think) weight I carry. Mebbe I should have gotten the hd ones. Eh. One-day. So ... My random advice to you is to go at least kcrr35hd at the back and ... There's a post here somewhere about droop length with different shocks... Take a pick.

[old Jack]

Hi 2Ems,

A Gen3/4 suspension lift does not change the suspension travel or the bump stops all it does is change the ride height within the existing suspension travel. All aftermarket coils that are designed for the Gen 3/4 suspension will not be fully compressed before the compression bump stop are reached so no need to worry.

Factory unladen ride heights are 503/505mm front and 533/535mm rear minimum legal ride heights are 461mm front and 488 mm rear, all measurements are taken from the centre of the wheel hub to the underside of the wheel arch in a vertical line.

Caution, you must retain 2/3's of the original suspension travel in droop other wise you will get unwanted and unnecessary activations of the ABS and ASCTC systems, and also to keep legal.
Ride heights of 545mm front and 585mm rear are the limits.

Kings offer the best range of coils and I consider these to be the coil of choice if they have a coil that suits your needs. They use a steel alloy which differs from the other manufacturers so they are lighter and stronger. Despite what many will tell you, progressive rate coils are best for the rear suspension. allow $200 per pair of coils. King also make coils for ARB/OME and Tough Dog.

Bilstein B6 are a nice on road strut and shocker, but they have a short 1 year/20,000km warranty and they are at a premium price. If you are traveling heavy and over rough roads and tracks the Koni are proven, Dobinson IMS which is the new version of the MT would also be worth looking at, but I would avoid the Dobinson MRR range as these have had a history of problems. 2x Struts and 2x shockers will cost about $1100.
Step down in your spend and for around the $700 to $800 mark you can get KYB Skorched or OzTec struts and shockers, both these are a good replacements recreational 4wd's. Do not overlook Monroe TDT as good value shockers and struts, Monroe actually make struts and shockers for ARB/OME.

Selecting the "one stop suspension shop" of ARB, TJM, Peddars, EFS, Tough Dog, Rancho, Raw, Outback Armour, etc, etc and you end up with an ok suspension upgrade but at a premium price. Remember someone has to pay for all that advertising!

Coils selection is critical so you need to know the accurate axle weights and what ride heights you want to achieve both loaded and loaded.

OJ.

[nj swb]

Hi 2Ems,

A Gen3/4 suspension lift does not change the suspension travel or the bump stops all it does is change the ride height within the existing suspension travel. All aftermarket coils that are designed for the Gen 3/4 suspension will not be fully compressed before the compression bump stop are reached so no need to worry.

OJ, I think you're forgetting the differences in droop travel we've witnessed with different shock absorbers. My OME shocks were limiting rear droop, but factory geometry became the limit with the Dobinsons.

Less likely to be an issue, but a wrong (too long) shock (front or rear) could also become the compression bump stop. Under static conditions, I can't get my front suspension to compress anywhere near the bump stop (I'm hoping it's not the shock limiting compression), but I don't know what might happen (front or rear) under the wrong dynamic conditions.

[Two Emms]

Thanks o.j. lots of great information there.

As per your suggestion I am thinking the kings progressive rate will be for me as I do a lot of highway driving . They seem to be the ones listed as part of 'comfort' packages. I have read good reports of the skorched shocks so they will probably suit me fine as I don't do any real hard core driving. I am looking at increased ride height for my trips into the Vic high country. I have fitted suspension before so will source the components and do the fitting myself.

I have a navara which I used for work for many years. About ten years ago I fitted ironman suspension and chose a set up for constant heavy loads. Fully loaded great, anything less, it is spine shatteringly harsh. Lesson learned.

Hence my purchase of a set of scales to accurately determine exactly the loads to be carried.

There's a weighbridge nearby so with a bit of luck I may be able to get individual axle weights. I have an alloy bull bar and a full set of boos plates so the front axle will be above factory weight.

Looking at the various discussions on here about suspension it's clear that careful research is essential and every detail needs consideration.

[old Jack]

OJ, I think you're forgetting the differences in droop travel we've witnessed with different shock absorbers. My OME shocks were limiting rear droop, but factory geometry became the limit with the Dobinsons.

Less likely to be an issue, but a wrong (too long) shock (front or rear) could also become the compression bump stop. Under static conditions, I can't get my front suspension to compress anywhere near the bump stop (I'm hoping it's not the shock limiting compression), but I don't know what might happen (front or rear) under the wrong dynamic conditions.

I didn't forget about the strut and shocker length the question related to coils binding.

I do not have the data on the compressed and extended lengths of the factory struts and shockers. Twisted 32 has done the most work on strut and shocker lengths and I really should get this data from him.
Interestingly ARB/OME list front struts at 474mm extended and 330mm compressed and OzTec list 484mm extended and 333mm compressed, so the Oztec strut has 10mm more extension travel.
ARB/OME list rear shockers as 582mm extension and 354mm compressed and OzTec list 585mm extension and 355mm compressed so almost identical.

In regard to your front OME coils not being able to fully compress, I would need the coil part numbers to do the calculations to see how much weight would be required to achieve full compression.

You can check if the strut or shocker is the limiting factor in suspension droop, you need to remove the droop stop and then lift the wheel clear of the ground and measure the centre hub to under wheel arch distance. Refit the droop stop and repeat the test, if the the droop measurement is greater with the droop stop removed than with the droop stop fitted then it is the droop stop and not the strut or shocker extended length that is limiting the droop travel.

To check the compression travel it is much more time consuming as the coils need to be removed and then a similar compression travel test done with and without the compression stops fitted.

OJ.