Bull bar options/GVM planning

[Butters 92]

I'm currently in the planning stage of setting up my PB Challenger as I want to make it a more capable tourer/4x4 vehicle, and I want to install all accessories before doing any suspension work(thinking I'll go through Oztek) . When I first purchased the car I added a rhino rack (which I'm really happy with and some aftermarket wheels. I have since decided to take the wheels off as I'm not happy with the offset and 9" width of the wheel. The stock wheels are going back on tomorrow and getting wrapped in some decent Falken A/T tyres.

My main concern with the vehicle is trying to stay within GVM and trying to stay under the front axle load limit. I have decided to ditch my plans for a heavy rear drawer system and will make up a small ply arrangement that will work with plastic tubs and house my fridge and aux battery.

However I'm trying to come to a solution for the front of the car as I'm going to need skippy protection (which a smart bar could offer at low kgs) but this bar doesn't seem to offer winch compatibility. Not many of the bull bar manafacturers seem to offer up the weights, I'd be guessing the Xrox bar may be a little lighter due to it's tubing construction, the stying isn't to everyones taste but I don't mind the look.

I know there's a good chance there is no solutions to my GVM concerns without comprimising on other functionalities, but just wanted to see if anyone has any ideas/experiences to share?

Cheers
Butters

[nj swb]

I'm currently in the planning stage of setting up my PB Challenger as I want to make it a more capable tourer/4x4 vehicle, and I want to install all accessories before doing any suspension work(thinking I'll go through Oztek) . When I first purchased the car I added a rhino rack (which I'm really happy with and some aftermarket wheels. I have since decided to take the wheels off as I'm not happy with the offset and 9" width of the wheel. The stock wheels are going back on tomorrow and getting wrapped in some decent Falken A/T tyres.

My main concern with the vehicle is trying to stay within GVM and trying to stay under the front axle load limit. I have decided to ditch my plans for a heavy rear drawer system and will make up a small ply arrangement that will work with plastic tubs and house my fridge and aux battery.

However I'm trying to come to a solution for the front of the car as I'm going to need skippy protection (which a smart bar could offer at low kgs) but this bar doesn't seem to offer winch compatibility. Not many of the bull bar manafacturers seem to offer up the weights, I'd be guessing the Xrox bar may be a little lighter due to it's tubing construction, the stying isn't to everyones taste but I don't mind the look.

I know there's a good chance there is no solutions to my GVM concerns without comprimising on other functionalities, but just wanted to see if anyone has any ideas/experiences to share?

Cheers
Butters

Hi Butters, welcome to the forum, and congrats on a great first post!

You seem to have a good handle on the GVM pitfalls that trap most of us, so you're off to a great start, and I can't offer much in the way of advice. But I am intrigued that you plan to return to factory wheels, and would like to know more about the path you followed to this decision. Did the offset or width create issues, or have you simply decided you don't like the look, or has something else happened? What was the offset?

[Dicko1]

i WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE PLASTIC SMART BARS HAVE CAPABILITY TO MOUNT A WINCH...

[Butters 92]

Hi Butters, welcome to the forum, and congrats on a great first post!

You seem to have a good handle on the GVM pitfalls that trap most of us, so you're off to a great start, and I can't offer much in the way of advice. But I am intrigued that you plan to return to factory wheels, and would like to know more about the path you followed to this decision. Did the offset or width create issues, or have you simply decided you don't like the look, or has something else happened? What was the offset?

Thanks mate

Honestly the main reason for the wheel change is for keeping the car roadworthy and not attracting unwanted attention that could lead to defects. The wheels are around a +10 offset and believe factory is +38mm, and 9" wide which is 1.5" above factory and this combo had the tyres just poking out beyond the guards. Keeping in mind I'm far from a suspension expert, but I believe more aggressive offset can impact scrub radius and suspension geometry which could add additional strain on components. I really want this car to be as reliable as possible as I want to minimise future maintainence costs.

The aftermarket wheels also had pretty average rubber on them, so this was a good excuse to upgrade haha.

The tyres I've added are aggressive 31.6" all terrains, thinking I'll eventually get the automate to assist the auto with larger tyres and not to mention the general driving improvement over the factory slush box.

Just have to come up with a solution to this bar/winch/gvm issue now

[Butters 92]

i WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE PLASTIC SMART BARS HAVE CAPABILITY TO MOUNT A WINCH...

Not from what I have seen, but happy to be proved wrong if anyone can add a link

[old Jack]

Unfortunately the Smarbar for the PB/PC Challenger and the MN Triton is not available in a winch compatible version. At 23kg it is however the lightest bar available.

ECB alloy bar weighs in at 24kg fitted but it too is not winch compatible.

Neither the genuine MMAL bars in alloy (25kg) or steel (35kg) are winch compatible.

Winch compatible steel bars weigh between 50kg and 80kg depending on the make.

Add 25kg to 45kg for a winch, another 30kg foe a second battery and the 1260kg front axle limit is almost or exceeded.
Front axle also takes 50% of the front seat occupant weights.

Rear axle limit is 1600kg and this can be easily exceeded.

GVM is only 2710kg even though the combined axle load limits are 2860kg.

The more accessories or must have gear you bolt on the less must have cargo you can carry. This is a common problem with most mid sized 4wd wagons and utes.

OJ.

[Butters 92]

Unfortunately the Smarbar for the PB/PC Challenger and the MN Triton is not available in a winch compatible version. At 23kg it is however the lightest bar available.

ECB alloy bar weighs in at 24kg fitted but it too is not winch compatible.

Neither the genuine MMAL bars in alloy (25kg) or steel (35kg) are winch compatible.

Winch compatible steel bars weigh between 50kg and 80kg depending on the make.

Add 25kg to 45kg for a winch, another 30kg foe a second battery and the 1260kg front axle limit is almost or exceeded.
Front axle also takes 50% of the front seat occupant weights.

Rear axle limit is 1600kg and this can be easily exceeded.

GVM is only 2710kg even though the combined axle load limits are 2860kg.

The more accessories or must have gear you bolt on the less must have cargo you can carry. This is a common problem with most mid sized 4wd wagons and utes.

OJ.

Thanks Old Jack, this confirms my fears. I guess it's a matter of weighing up what's important. I do plan on adding the aux battery to the rear of the vehicle which will hopefully help the front axle, but that weight still has to be accounted for on the rear axle and overall gvm. I'd like to give the winch a miss, however I'm very much a novice when it comes to 4wding. Some of my close mates have very capable vehicles (big lifts and tyres) and I'd like to be able to do some of the tracks they do but without going the big lift and tyre route. The winch in my mind fills this void as it can get me up some tracks I wouldn't otherwise make it up.

Also after reading one of your other threads I picked up some pedders 5899 cone springs the other day, so they're ready to go when the lift goes in

[old Jack]

If you are running big tyre's, big lifts, crawler gears and dual diff lockers on a live axle 4wd you can just point these vehicles at most tracks and just drive up them without worrying too much about the application of technique or skill. When driving a mid size stock recreational 4wd you cannot use the same point and plant driving style. If you do you will get stuck more often and you will break things.

Setting up a comfortable and capable tourer is a lot different from setting up a rock crawler, it is very difficult (almost impossible) to have both in the same vehicle.

First decision and challenge is knowing what you are trying to achieve, and coming to terms with the compromises and limitations that will be placed on your vechile by this decision.

As a novice it is easy to get caught up in all the hype and end up with "all the wrong gear and no idea"

OJ.