not starting well warm

[haz77]

Hi,

3.2D 2004 paj.

Starts great still when cold but when warm or after a run etc it takes a lot more turning over than ever before.

Any things I can check before I go see the cash removers?

Mike.

[Peterng]

not starting well warm

It seems to be a fuel delivery problem.
This will range from any number of issues within the diesel delivery system..rail pressures, pump / injector timing..fuel lines..temp sensors, it may even be as simple as a filter..
Get a reputable diesel workshop who knows what they are doing to have a look at it.





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[haz77]

So why would that effect warm starts but not cold? -Absolutely no issues what so ever with running just hesitant to start warm.

There's not really a dedicated or go to workshop local for diesels, just all round garages.

Might try a filter as that's not much of a cost & will be on special for easter.

[JErickson]

There's not really a dedicated or go to workshop local for diesels, just all round garages.

Might try a filter as that's not much of a cost & will be on special for easter.

I had a similar issue. Changed out the filter and everything went back to working fine. But now it is doing the same thing again, and I changed the filter again, and now that isn't helping.

So I am at a bit of a loss. Best of luck to you, but I am still trying to diagnose the same issue.

Someone was telling me maybe it was vapor lock. I have yet to look into that, but if anyone can just tell me if that is a possibility, you might save me some research time.

[Ocean]

Search the forum guys there are some issues with pumps going in these models as they are ageing.

Or it could be one of the sensors on the bottom of the pump. There is posts about both in some cases if it is the bottom sensors when there are swapped around the problem is fixed.

If is a suspect/on the way out pump they can be expensive to replace as there pumps are very specific types of pumps pre-common rail.

If nothing else finding out more from past post here is a good start to then seeking out the right professional help.

If it is suspect pump someone on here sourced a pump cheaper from Ireland

[haz77]

So having searched "starting" in Gen3 Ive just finished reading through 20 pages of posts containing the word & I'm 99.9% confident that its going to be the starter motor at fault, as described here;

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=22333&highlight=starting&page=2

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=21383&highlight=starting

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=10835&highlight=starting&page=2

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=35265&highlight=starting&page=2

Very relieved to say I have none of the symptoms of a failing pump, fuel supply system faults, blocked fuel filter or lines, debris in the tank, glow plug failure, etc etc etc.

However very paranoid now about when my pump will fail & the $5000 bill that will come with it, time to polish it up & flog it off maybe,,,,

Now Just need to decide weather to achieve the 100% diagnosis by running it to failure, which seems to be the best practice from reading the woes experienced by owners in the 20 pages of posts from going to "mechanics", "specialists", "technicians" who generally it seems go with, 1- fuel filter, 2- Battery, 3- Glow plugs, 4- Fuel pump, 5- Don't know,,,,

Better start ringing around for starter motor prices.

[GHendo]

Hi mate

Just noticed you are looking for a new starter motor. I just wanted to make you are aware that some of the ones advertised on e-Bay and the like, are not all they seem. I bought one a while ago that was advertised as a new Bosch motor, and when it arrived it turned out to be a reconditioned Mitsubishi motor.

Also, I would be a little bit surprised if your problem is the starter motor considering you symptoms. A diesel motor’s ‘difficult’ start is the first one of the day – after that the motor is warm and the combustion in the cylinders happen more easily. This means the hardest start of the day for your starter motor is this initial one, which you say is the easiest. I had a similar scenario with one of my tractors recently. The problem turned out to be the battery – it had enough charge in it for the first start of the day but this drained most of the power from it and then subsequent starts were very slow or didn’t happen at all. Running it for a few hours put a bit more charge back in the battery and it had enough to kick the engine over in the morning. Turns out the battery was 7 years old so I couldn’t really complain.

Just a thought – might be something to check.

Cheers

Geoff

[haz77]

Thanks for the reply, and all the previous too,

Took it to the local Mitzi dealers today, initially I introduced him to the suggestion of starter failing & he was not familiar with the fault / symptoms, he had a look - warm start & said maybe battery, maybe glow plugs, one of the guys in the posts above was told the same thing, $1000au later (they broke a plug & had to remove the head,,,) the prob was still the same.

Went to the battery place (who supplied it last year) tested at "90%", said its fine, thinks due to the age & kms it may be the starter, this was an unprompted suggestion.

Now im left thinking, the hardest start of the day, 1st one, if the plugs were dubious surrrrrrrly this would be when it was worst???

Also in reading the 20 posts related to "starting" Im sure I picked up on warm starts not needing the plugs or them not being energized?

So, no quote for plugs but gen Mitzi starter is $1867, aft market (through Mitzi) $575, think the warranty was the same on both. ($NZ)
Not got any external parts supplier quotes yet.

To be honest at that price Im very tempted to run it to fail but,,, of course the starter could fail BECAUSE of the reluctance to start

[Hungie]

I wouldn't rule out the starter. A couple of months ago I arrived home from a weekend away after driving 200 k's continuously. I parked on the footpath and turned the engine off while I opened the garage to reverse the trailer in. Went back to the car and it wouldn't start, not even turn over at all. Nothing. Starter motor was found to be completely dead. So it died while the engine was hot, having started perfectly all weekend and up to that point. No syptoms in the lead up to it failing whatsoever.

Good luck

[haz77]

Thanks for the reply,

Get what your saying, heat in the starter motor is maybe causing it to struggle.

my delayed starting has been going on for a few weeks, we've been away so didn't want to take it to an unknown workshop etc.

Ours has never not started, its just taking a bit longer to start when warm than it used to whilst still starting cold absolutely fine.

Im going to record a cold & warm start on my phone so I can compare apples.

[haz77]

Up date on this,

I bit the bullet & brought a Bosch starter off Ebay Au which arrived the day we departed for a week away, in the boot it went,,,

Got back on the Fri, truck was going in on the Mon, Sat the starter gave up, que the AA recovery truck,,,

Starter fitted on the Mon (as planned!), now starting better than a new one

Starter $252au delivered to NZ, fitting $103nzd, beats thte $1250++ or $470++ Mitsi quoted!!

[jvdkooij]

hmmm, we have the same problem with our Montero, only it is Petrol V6 3,5.
And your problem is gone after changing the starter?
ow by the way, we did replace the fuelpump and the valve that keeps the fuelpressure up, but that didnt help

[haz77]

Starter failure seems to be a common thing though many saying its because the Diesel spills over it when you change the filter so not sure about a petrol motor.

I worked on the basis that with a new battery already it was the cheapest place to start!

Just changed the starter & nothing else, now starts better than ever.

[jvdkooij]

Thanks,
I discussed this with my son who is studying for a mechanic, according to him it can be possible that the cables are not ok or dirty, so we will change that first after our UAZ has been finished.

[haz77]

Yes it is also possible that either the starter & battery terminals may need cleaning & tightening and also the cables to the starter can break down & cause the same fault.