Pajero Sport Catch Can Quandary

[old Jack]

I would really be interested in doing some emission testing and comparing 2 similar CRD engine vehicles, with say 100,000km on the Odometer, one that has had an EGR inoperable since new and the other that has had the EGR operable. My thoughts are that by 100,000km, and may be sooner, the vehicle with the operable EGR will have a partially blocked inlet manifold and will have higher emissions than the vehicle with an inoperable EGR and clean inlet manifold.

I know from my testing having the EGR "turned off' significantly decreases fuel consumption and decreases black smoke under acceleration, so surely this must be reducing the emissions.

OJ.

[nj swb]

I would really be interested in doing some emission testing and comparing 2 similar CRD engine vehicles, with say 100,000km on the Odometer, one that has had an EGR inoperable since new and the other that has had the EGR operable. My thoughts are that by 100,000km, and may be sooner, the vehicle with the operable EGR will have a partially blocked inlet manifold and will have higher emissions than the vehicle with an inoperable EGR and clean inlet manifold.

I know from my testing having the EGR "turned off' significantly decreases fuel consumption and decreases black smoke under acceleration, so surely this must be reducing the emissions.

OJ.

I took would love to know total emissions over the life of a vehicle with & without EGR.

EGR deliberately makes combustion less efficient, so more fuel is burned, presumably more CO2 is generated. The less efficient combustion produces more soot, which is why manufacturers needed to introduce the DPF to catch it all. Then they need to do periodic regeneration burns to burn off the soot (using more fuel, generating more CO2).

EGR may produce less NOx, but is it simply trading one pollutant (NOx) for another (CO2, and soot in vehicles without DPF)?

Let's not discuss the fun Toyota owners have been having with their DPFs, and what pollutants may have been emitted during the attempted regens reported to spew copious amounts of white smoke, or the videos of various vehicles spewing smoke as various on-car "cleaning" methods are implemented to clear the intake sludge created by EGR recirculating soot into the intake.

[Bladerunner99]

So I went with the Provent 200 kit from Western Filters. I had an issue installing the mounting bracket, as my vehicle (2018) had some additional aircon hoses that interfered with the bracket. I had to cut and file a notch in the bracket to clear the hoses.



I also found that the canister touched the airbox when bolted in place, so I fabricated a couple of wedges to install on the studs behind canister mounting strap to slightly angle the can away from the airbox.



Thank you for the advice/information.

[OldEmmGee]

I installed the kit also - added some corrugated tubing to the air-con pipes where they could touch the bracket (and cable tied together to stop rattles and wear) - I also had to reduce the length of the 'straight' tube supplied to prevent kinking. Overall - an OK installation (but not to OE standards).

I reduced the length of the drain tube and secured the tap behind the soft protective flap forward of the wheel.

Hopefully see litres of gunk in there each week to justify the fitting (Minster Of Finance is questioning some of the activities now). After fitting the rear diff breather "When was the last time you needed one?". I tried explaining that by asking the question she did not understand. Hoping to be on talking terms again by Easter.....

[Lateron]

Same problem with the AC pipe, I used the trimmed off piece of the upper hose and positioned it over the bracket so it doesn't rub. The airbox was similar, but I gave the hole lot a tweak and it seems to have stayed in place now. As above, I cable tied my drain tube valve just behind the flap onto my nudgebar bracket. After about 5,000km it seems to be working fine, I'm holding off on draining it every time I look.



PS. Did you get the latest version provent? The filter now has the bypass valve instead of the cap, so if you go to order a new filter in future you need to get that sort. Ebay ones I've seen are the old type and would be an issue if the filter clogs.

[Bladerunner99]

Lateron - Yes I got the latest Provent 200 from Western Filters. I have noted a knocking noise when first starting up, it is the canister moving ever so slightly in the canister strap/bracket, I have applied a small bead of silicone sealant that I hope will quieten it down.


Oldemgee - I am interested in the diff breather, could you please provide more information, stockist/fitting instructions/photos, Cheers

[OldEmmGee]

I bought mine off eBay - a twin version (although only need 1). Removed the old mushroom cap and tapped into the plastic fixing to screw in the new breather adaptor. 10 minutes!

[OldEmmGee]

Absolutely amazed. Checked out after 4,000kms (from 11,000 to 15,000 in my 19MY) and found this amount of oil. Glad I have it!

I'm estimating just under 10mL per thousand kay's. Poor thing!

[hardie]

Have people read this, and can someone fully explain the differences between the filters and the catch cans?

2018-10-31
Comparative Performance of 12 Crankcase Oil Mist Separators 03-12-01-0001
This also appears in SAE International Journal of Engines-V128-3EJ

Closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) systems are required in most automotive markets in order to meet emissions regulations. Such systems usually require a separator to recover oil and return it to the sump. Many end users fit improved separators in order to reduce intake/aftercooler contamination with soot/oil. This study measured clean and wet pressure drop and filter capture efficiency in 12 different crankcase oil mist separators which are commonly used for either original equipment (OE) or aftermarket fitment to passenger vehicles and four-wheel drives (≤200 kW). The filters tested spanned three different size/rating classes as well as included both branded and unbranded (imitation) models. In addition to filters, separators (often termed “catch cans”) and an OE cyclone separator were also examined. Testing was performed under controlled laboratory conditions using methods equivalent to previous work and current mist filter test standards. All separators were tested at flow rates between 50 and 250 lpm in both dry and “wet” (saturated with oil) states. Filtration/separation efficiency was also measured. Separators were compared based on quality factor (ratio of capture efficiency to pressure drop). A wide range of quality factors were found; however, in general, the filters were found to be superior to the catch cans, while the cyclone had the lowest quality factor. The branded filters were found to be superior in terms of quality factor, mainly due to the fact that they contained a greater quantity and/or finer separation media compared to imitation models.

[OldEmmGee]

As a test I bought one of the EGR mods (as discussed on this forum) to check the claims over improved driveability and fuel economy (not intending to run more than 2 tanks of fuel).

No significant influence on fuel use after one tank (still getting around 9.5l/100). Undecided over driveability.....I have removed (to do some towing) and will check again when the mood takes me.

[kod10]

Ryco mounted on engine

I was going to use the Provent 200, however after looking at the specs I have chosen the Ryco. But the kicker for me was where the Provent is mounted. I read complaints of vibrations after fitting the Provent. My take on that, is that engine torque movement during acceleration/deceleration the hoses are pushing the Provent canister and thus the mounts attached to the Brake assembly on the firewall. I was also very concerned with the possibility of damage to the brake hydraulic lines which are terribly close, and would not like to be in a remote bush situation without brakes.

To avoid those points above, I decided to replicate the original hose situation, that is, only having the catch can attached to the engine and its components, so that everything moves in unison. I have fabricated a very robust mount bolted to three M8 bolts circled on the photos.

I would appreciate any thoughts on my hack at catch can mounting. Thanks.

[swilson150]

Western Filters Provent 200

I ordered the Provent kit from Western Filters to fit my 2016 Pajero Sports.

Received it in exactly 7 days and fitted it immediately. Pretty straight forward but it took me a few minutes to convince myself that the bracket would fit, just took a bit of wiggling to get it in place.

Drain hose and valve is nice to have but buggered if I could find where the clamp was supposed to bolt to. Found another nearby factory bolt/stud and used that, eventually zip tying the last portion where it wouldn't get in the way of anything.

The current bracket setup doesn't touch the brake reservoir (2-3mm clearance) or get in the way of anything else. No rattling on anything.

So far very happy with it. Best part is it looks factory and not some eBay bling thing.

[denisp]

Anyone know the difference between the V-Giant kit and the Provent kit apart from the $110 in the price, please.

[greenie537]

The turbo apparently has a separate oil lubricating system to its bearings and does not rely on the oil found in the blow back fumes. Due to the newer standards in pollution prevention the crank case vent, which was previously vented out to the open air is now routed back so that the blow by gases are burnt in the cylinder, unfortunately en-route it meets coats the manifold where the hot EGR gases chars and carbonizes the film of oil and I suspect the burnt residue from the cylinder would also muddy the DPF.
The classic Catch can available cheap on eBay is just an empty can or filled with steel wool which traps and precipitates the oil in the gases, very inefficient, the oil separator does the same with filter paper and is very very efficient. Any block in the catch can circuit, will increase pressures in the crank case and possibly lead to blown gaskets/seals so a pressure relieving safety valve is essential.
I have installed the provent kit from western filters, which includes dedicated hoses and a bracket mount specific for the PS. The only skill required is to tighten a few nuts. It also has a back pressure safety valve. Some manufacturers have a OEM system which reroutes the oil catch back into the crank case, the residue is a black tarry thick fluid which I would definitely not empty back into the crank case. Of course you are expected to dispose the residue in a environmentally friendly manner and not tip it into a drain. I can confirm that it does catch a lot of dirty oil, can't say if it has a long term benefit, I am convinced it does no harm.
The MM service in charge appreciated the provent system verbally, I didn't ask for an official approval, as I didn't want them to come up with a disclaimer and denial. I have included a pic of the installation.
Hope this helps.

Hey, can I ask, can you hear the catch can inside the car? I had a Provent 200 once and it was noisey as.

Cheers

[Scooby]

Hey, can I ask, can you hear the catch can inside the car? I had a Provent 200 once and it was noisey as.

Cheers

Didn’t hear any different noises after fitting them to the NW Pajero and D22 Navara.