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**Mike DiD** · 25-10-07, 08:44 AM

I've found that the LEDs I tried for the High Level Brake lights are much dimmer than the original bulbs, so I advise against using them.

**Skrot3em** · 13-02-11, 08:36 AM

LEDs ain't LEDs

Been through a similar process myself. Because the eBay links were stale, I didn't get to see what you bought and so forged my own trail.

Between replacing home halogen downlights with LED, fitting out the car, and doing plenty of research to make my own camp strip-lights I've learned a little along the way, a lot from buying stuff that wasn't as bright as I expected. I have a load of "super bright" LED lights purported to be for car indicators and tail lights that fall so far short of the mark that its not funny.

First, there is a dizzying array of LED lights, and the brightness of each LED varies incredibly. Many of the cheap T10 and T20 LED lights on eBay are <1W with 9/12/15/18/20+ individual LEDs, and yet there are other types of LED that go >1.5W with a single LED. (not that I'd recommend these, I'm just trying to illustrate that LED element does not equal LED element)

Rather than try to get too caught up in the technical details (and probably nit-picked for saying the wrong thing), or provide a list of sample products that will be stale links in a couple of weeks, I thought I'd try to share what I learned to hopefully save someone else a few bucks.

1. Stay away from any units that are either single LED (even bright CREE), or an array of LEDs all facing in the same direction. The reflectors in your indicator, tail and stop light housing are designed to focus 360 degree light from a filament bulb, into a light beam with specific intensities in different directions. Directional LED's are often very bright when you look at them straight on, but they don't have the spread to fill out your light cluster with a nice even glow.

2. Get to know the different LED technologies. The difference in output between a so-called "Flux" element and an SMD (Surface-mount device) element is pretty dramatic. Even among SMD elements there are different sizes, so an 18 SMD unit of one type can be brighter than a 42 SMD of another type. In a nutshell, most of the LEDs that look like little tiny bulbs are of an older design and operate from a very small junction, so generally don't produce as much light. Newer SMD units look like a flat spot, usually yellow in colour. There are two main types of SMD being incorporated into these lights, the 3528, and 5050 which refer to their size (3.5x2.8mm, and 5.0x5.0mm -just to confuse things there's also a less-used set of imperial numbers that refer to the same things). With allowances for the different shapes, and effectiveness around the edges, a generally accepted rule of thumb is that one 5050 is 3 x 3528 in terms of power consumption and brightness. They are the same technology - a flat surface deposited with the LED goodness, so whether the bulb uses 3528 or 5050 elements doesn't matter, you just need to be able to recognise the difference and multiply by three so you can compare relative output.

3. Check the size. T20 wedge refers to a 20mm diameter bulb, and the Mitsubishi reflectors come pretty close to that, so if you buy a bulb that uses inferior LED elements, and then tries to compensate by packing too many in, you end up with a bulb that will fit in your bin, but not your Pajero. Some of the cluster bulbs come out to almost 25mm diameter (as my wheelie bin will attest).

I've found that sticking to 5050 (or 3528) SMD has been the safest bet. If you want to avoid the uncertainty, try a local LED specialist with automotive bulbs, as they will have tested and can remove some risk. Some of these sites also have pictures, which you can use to find cheaper alternatives on eBay.

If you find too many eBay alternatives and don't know where to start, I'd begin with T10 white as used in the front position (park) lamps, door convenience (shine down on the ground from under the door) and rear number plate lights. Buy what you think will be bright enough for the exterior lights and if they aren't bright enough you can put them in the doors and try again. You can also test them for brightness in the raised rear brake lights. In general, while you can put white lights in the red tail/stop lights, the crisp white (more bluish than incandescent bulbs) can slightly alter the colour of the light. There are red LEDs available and these will further enhance the redness of the light, but at least if you test with white you'll know what you want when you're looking for the red ones. The indicators are an orange bulb, so you need to buy an amber LED.

**Skrot3em** · 13-02-11, 09:29 AM

How to find

A good place to start is to got to eBay, under:
Home > Buy > Cars, Bikes, Boats > Car, Truck Parts > Lights, Indicators > LED Lights

and then search for T20 SMD or T10 SMD. Sounds obvious, but I have found that navigating in through the hierarchy first puts you on the eBay Motors site, and you get more specific (and a greater quantity of) results than if you just try searching for LED lights from the front page.

**redturboeclipse** · 06-04-11, 01:28 PM

hi, has anyone done this and have photos of how they look?

**brianwanless** · 06-04-11, 08:25 PM

Thanks Skrot3em, That is some good info. I have replaced the interior festoons with the multiple leds, and they are good. However a 32 led globe I got to replace the 21w globe in my caravan outside light, was a big disapointment. I have found Brightlights have a good range in Australia and are good to deal with. Thanks Brian.

**Smocky** · 02-06-11, 01:32 AM

Received my first batch of LED lights and I think my wheelie bin is going to get a work out.

I thought I'd start with the internal festoon overhead globes as there are 7 of those in the car and they are the ones that get left on when the door is open or you have clicked on a light manually.

Received the 31mm single SMD high power (1w) bulbs and fitted to the rear roof. There is less light coming from these than the original bulb. It's whiter, no doubt and I wonder if this makes it look like there is less light.

Any others replaced these with LEDs and did you find there was more or less light?

I have the rear brake lights to do next.

Cheers,

Smocky.

**waynechong** · 02-06-11, 03:58 AM

Do you have any pics of the pajero after installing the LEDs?

**GOSSAMER** · 02-06-11, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Smocky View Post

Received the 31mm single SMD high power (1w) bulbs and fitted to the rear roof. There is less light coming from these than the original bulb. It's whiter, no doubt and I wonder if this makes it look like there is less light.

Any others replaced these with LEDs and did you find there was more or less light?

Cheers,

Smocky.

i brought these and think they are heaps brighter. bit of an ordinary fit but brighter

Error page | eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140528801735&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

**apsilon** · 02-06-11, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by jasonw View Post

i brought these and think they are heaps brighter. bit of an ordinary fit but brighter
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I've got the same ones or at least the same style and agree, they're much brighter. Not sure what you mean about the fit, mine are fine. You could actually go a bit larger, maybe a 3x5 to be even brighter again.

I've also put LEDs in the door courtest light which is brighter than stock and in the parkers which again are brighter and the white light matches the HIDs nicely. Tried one in the reverse light and while it was whiter I didn't think they were any brighter so went back to the original. Still plan on doing the puddle lights in the mirrors and probably the parkers on the bullbar.

**Smocky** · 02-06-11, 10:59 PM

OK Brake lights are definitely a success.

Brightness is basically identical. I was going to put up a photo but there isn't much point. The only noticable difference is that the LED light fills out the lens better.

And they do come on faster as has already been described above.

Tried a white 5 LED T10 in the top brake light and I agree it's no good. Looks like a tail light. Waiting for some 10 LED T10's to arrive to see if they are any better.

Waiting for more bulbs to arrive to continue testing.

Mike's initial post is a great starting point.

Cheers.

**buckster** · 05-06-11, 11:10 AM

Cheap LED imports

IF you are looking for upgrading to LED try this site:

http://www.dealextreme.com/c/car-led-light-bulbs-712

I have ordered heaps of items form them, very cheap free and shipping. I have converted my car and my Jayco camper over to LED.

**Smocky** · 06-06-11, 09:55 PM

Thanks Buckster, it's a bit hit and miss.

The CT is already LED, but I'm thinking of doing the motor bike, the Mrs VW, the kids push bikes, the dog and the cat.

Love the things.

Hand made a really, really nice LED strip light that magnetically mounts to the camper trailer spreader bar over the kitchen too. Sometimes I even impress myself !!

**GlennR** · 07-06-11, 08:02 PM

Hi Guys,
Out of the mods you have done successfully, what do you reckon is the best result for the front parking lights and where did you buy them. Looking for a nice white that matches the xenon's.

**apsilon** · 07-06-11, 09:01 PM

I bought some 5 SMD LED T10 bulbs from ebay for the parkers. They're great IMO. Can't recall which seller but there's heaps of them that all look the same from various sellers in Hong Kong.

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