Suspension lift: ?? Stain connecting parts

[scribble88]

Ok people got a hard question for you!

It is hard because I really don't want opinion, rather unbiased facts.

It seems most people are strong advocates for a suspension lift. I can see the advantages of getting the lift.

Just for fun it is great to watch idiots on YouTube do stupid things in there 4wd's. One thing that disturbs me, when I see linkages, cv driveshafts snap in somewhat not so hardcore off-roading. The YouTube videos, everyone seems to have suspension lifts.

Now, most breakages of steering/suspension etc during 4wd-ing are yanks, rednecks with massive wheels on jeeps or f100 etc; but a few are Australian admittedly Rollux's or Forerunner's.

Mitsubishi engineers have designed the car around the suspension they supply with it. Now if you replace the springs and shocks with aftermarket ones, raising the suspension 50mm, other parts like cv joints etc are now put under more strain, having to work at a slightly different angle. There is more range of movement up and down, r/t 50mm of suspension lift.

I was ready to put the damage to linkages in YouTube videos down to oversize wheels, and or reckless driving. Reading the Mechanical section of this forum, showed "goodsy" (I think that is his handle) do two cv joints or driveshafts in a short period of time. Goodsy said the second was only after 10k, promising he was not doing anything silly. Reading the responses it seemed, to be a spacer with a suspension lift was the culprit.

Now I know that you can get a suspension lift without the spacers. Still though, the lift changes, even if ever so slightly, the angle that any part connected to it functions; not how mitsubishi engineers have designed them to work.

Are people having to replace the parts connected to the suspension, that has a lift?

Do suspension lifts put extra strain on connected parts? Hard to believe why not!

[scribble88]

Whoops the title should say strain not stain.
Here is the Goodsy link about cv broken

http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=38083

[my.paj]

Not the same model as yours but I have lifted my Pajero to its limits and have had it like this for 4 years and have only replaced CV Boots.
Does the lift put extra strain on connected parts I would say Yes.
But the way I see it, the suspension lift allows me to get through without getting stuck or hitting the under side of my car and keeps my car up out of some water.
I'm happy to have some ware tare on the Pajero due to the lift.

[scribble88]

Thanks my paj.

In relation to getting a wheel stuck in a rut, or difficult ascent etc; would cv joints, steering etc being more at risk of damage given the extra strain they are under with the suspension lift.

[my.paj]

Thanks my paj.

In relation to getting a wheel stuck in a rut, or difficult ascent etc; would cv joints, steering etc being more at risk of damage given the extra strain they are under with the suspension lift.

I have been thinking about what I said and after re reading I feel there will be no extra strain on the steering or suspension because you have only changed the angle of the cv or steering joint, they are designed to operate at certain angles so as long as those angles are not exceeded there should be no extra strain.
Rick

[TC.Barky]

If I remember correctly, Goodsy has his lifted slightly higher than most people and runs slightly bigger tyres than most as well. This could be pushing the CVs to the limit. It seems to be a fairly isolated case from what I understand.

I realise you didn't really want conjecture, but my thoughts are that they are a part that (presumably) have a limited serviceable lifespan anyway. By lifting a little bit further than most people, perhaps the vehicle in question has the CVs sitting on a slightly sharper angle and the constant revolution of the joint when onroad (let alone the extra stress introduced when offroad) has accelerated the wear rate and thus the serviceable life of the part - which eventually lead to premature failure in this case. Having said that, I agree with Rick from a practical sense - lifting the car within normal limits of the CVs means less risk of damage to the undercarriage and as long as the lift isn't excessive to the point of exceeding the design of the joint I feel the reduction in service life is probably marginal and does not outweigh the benefits.

I don't think any other components are at risk of early failure due to the lift... BUT it is generally accepted that driving in strenuous offroad conditions as well as bigger tyres (more weight to push) DOES put more pressure on aspects of the steering. Does this mean idler arms, pitman arms, power steering systems etc wear out more quickly than otherwise? Maybe, can't say I've ever heard of any specific cases where they have failed as a direct result however and gen2 pajeros (for example due to the age) with bigger tyres and offroad use don't seem to wear through front end components any faster/slower than others.

[abw]

A bit of a mystery?! One thing I read somewhere is that the design of the CVs have changed from the 3rd to 4th generation (petrol 4th gen same as 3rd gen). The 3rd gen Pajeros (and 4th gen petrol) incorporate I think 4 ball bearings and the 4th gen diesel CVs have more (6 or 8) smaller ball bearings. So perhaps the newer CVs with smaller bearings are more susceptible to failure if dirt/dust gets in (say, due to the ageing boot cracking with the increased angle of a lift)? Who knows.

[my.paj]

A bit of a mystery?! One thing I read somewhere is that the design of the CVs have changed from the 3rd to 4th generation (petrol 4th gen same as 3rd gen). The 3rd gen Pajeros (and 4th gen petrol) incorporate I think 4 ball bearings and the 4th gen diesel CVs have more (6 or 8) smaller ball bearings. So perhaps the newer CVs with smaller bearings are more susceptible to failure if dirt/dust gets in (say, due to the ageing boot cracking with the increased angle of a lift)? Who knows.

This is what I am thinking as well, I replaced one CV with a after market one as it was quicker but when I replaced the boot on that CV I noticed it had 3 bearings as apposed to original that had 4 or more balls.
Did this design change the working angles they can work on?
A tie rod or a ball in a CV cant be placed under greater pressure by lifting it 25mm unless that lift interferes with the max travel of that CV ie if the lift would allow the shaft to hit the casing because the bump stops (limit stops) had been modified.
The 2 different CV's http://images.gasgoo.com/MiMgIzc3MDQ...or-ford-vw.jpg
This is the 3 bearing type this one look ok but on the one in my Pajero the side wall are much thinner http://photos.tradeholding.com/attac...4851/cvj03.jpg

[TC.Barky]

A tie rod or a ball in a CV cant be placed under greater pressure by lifting it 25mm unless that lift interferes with the max travel of that CV ie if the lift would allow the shaft to hit the casing because the bump stops (limit stops) had been modified.

Do you think that the increased movement of the joint when the car is moving due to the pivot point being further away from the centre would cause increased wear though? If that makes sense? Could heat be a factor as well due to the extra work done?

[my.paj]

I dont think there is a increase in movement only the angle has changed unless something other than a suspension lift has been done.
The one problem is if you fit longer shocks and springs then remove the bump stops this will be where the problems start.
Its like ARB say they will only fit a 40mm lift to a Pajero this would be because 40mm lift will not cause any problems to the original settings.

[GHendo]

I think most people in the 4WD world would agree that a 50mm. lift is pretty harmless as far as adding stress to parts etc. I had my vehicle raised 50mm. when I needed new springs/shocks almost 2 years ago now and I’ve had one CV boot that cracked about 12 months after the installation – who’s to say it wouldn’t have cracked anyway ?

It would appear things can go very pear-shaped if additional changes to the suspension are not made when lifts over the 50mm. or 75mm. are attempted. CV joints can and do destroy if the vehicle is mistreated off-road – excessive right foot in tricky situations etc. – you see this happen on the 4WD Action videos quite often. For me, the 50mm. lift just gave me that little extra clearance in ruts etc. and I am always very aware of not trying to demolish the CV joints.

Cheers

Geoff

[my.paj]

A tie rod, ball joint and a CV would be put under a greater pressure by bigger tyres and rims, I would say a 40mm suspension lift would have little affect on the components.

[my.paj]

CV boots will suffer because when the car is lifted the folds in the boot will rub.

[TC.Barky]

I dont think there is a increase in movement only the angle has changed unless something other than a suspension lift has been done.
The one problem is if you fit longer shocks and springs then remove the bump stops this will be where the problems start.
Its like ARB say they will only fit a 40mm lift to a Pajero this would be because 40mm lift will not cause any problems to the original settings.

Hmmm yeah I was thinking about it and I suppose you are correct. In the thread linked they were talking about the TJM kit that Goodsy has fitted having a slightly longer shock absorber travel than some other kits, not a huge amount but perhaps another factor?

[my.paj]

Limits are set by the engineers that produce the car, if a product has been fitted that allows the suspension to go beyond its limits than than that part would be the weakest link.